P-64 squib reported on TFB.com

[MakAttack]

Hornady critical defense ammo (of course it might not be the fault of the ammo).

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... -round-in/

[robhic]

The guy said he thought maybe the round contained no powder. IMO, that's not something you'd be unsure of. It would either go BANG! very loudly or it would 'pop' like those .22 CeeBee quiet rounds using primer only. If it contained no powder and his barrel was dirty, yes, I can see it. No experience with quiet rounds in bigger calibers, but I have a friend who has a very high kill rate for opossums, racoons, rats and such at his residential neighborhood home (hence the quiet ammo ) using a Henry .22 rifle.

I was expecting the rubber insert in the Hornady ammo to be blamed. I've used the 9X18 FTX bullets by Hornady and they work just fine in my P64s.

[MakAttack]

Somebody here should try pulling a bullet, dumping the powder and seeing if just the primer is enough to get a the bullet that far. I'm suspicious.

[Weasel640]

Somebody here should try pulling a bullet, dumping the powder and seeing if just the primer is enough to get a the bullet that far. I'm suspicious.

Are you volunteering your P-64? Because I'm not purposefully going to cause a potentially harmful malfunction to any of my P-64s, nor would I ask anyone here to.

[Curly1]

+1 ^^^^^

[robhic]

Somebody here should try pulling a bullet, dumping the powder and seeing if just the primer is enough to get a the bullet that far. I'm suspicious.

Are you volunteering your P-64? Because I'm not purposefully going to cause a potentially harmful malfunction to any of my P-64s, nor would I ask anyone here to.

Do you think firing a round with just the primer - NO POWDER! - would be harmful in some way? Those Aguila and (I think) CCI quiet rounds in .22 use just the primer with no powder (says so on the box) could cause problems? They make my Ruger MkIII pistol a single shot gun because they can't cycle the bolt. But they are pretty benign, otherwise.

[Curly1]

Would you really want to try to get a stuck round out of your P64, it's probably not just going to fall out if you tip the barrel.

[Weasel640]

Somebody here should try pulling a bullet, dumping the powder and seeing if just the primer is enough to get a the bullet that far. I'm suspicious.

Are you volunteering your P-64? Because I'm not purposefully going to cause a potentially harmful malfunction to any of my P-64s, nor would I ask anyone here to.

Do you think firing a round with just the primer - NO POWDER! - would be harmful in some way? Those Aguila and (I think) CCI quiet rounds in .22 use just the primer with no powder (says so on the box) could cause problems? They make my Ruger MkIII pistol a single shot gun because they can't cycle the bolt. But they are pretty benign, otherwise.

I really don't think we are even on the same page here!!

Like Curly said "Would you really want to try to get a stuck round out of your P64"??? A round stuck in the barrel is a hazard plain and simple!! No matter how many times you scream "NO POWDER!" you are still going to be dead-lining your P-64 as soon as that round gets stuck in the barrel.

The post I replied to the OP was suggesting that someone else should try to create this hazard/dead-line. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in the fact that he himself could do it, and it's NOT really cool to suggest to others to cause a hazard with a firearm.

Additionally comparing the 9x18 Makarov round to a .22 LR is like comparing an Apple to a Cherry. Which one is going to do more damage in the event of a malfunction???

[robhic]

Like Curly said "Would you really want to try to get a stuck round out of your P64"??? A round stuck in the barrel is a hazard plain and simple!!

I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. I had to do it with a .45 round. Not fun and quite a bit scary.

But if you emptied all the powder out of the round YOURSELF so there'd be no chance of someone else's incompetence, then pressed the bullet (I don't reload so don't know how this would be done) back into the EMPTY case and fire on primer only, what would it hurt?

Yes, 9mm Makarov and .22lr is apples to oranges but the CONCEPT is the same. An empty cartridge, whether 22 or 9Mak, propelled by just the primer shouldn't be much different. That's all I was saying. Taking a stuck bullet with an EMPTY cartridge is apples to oranges with a loaded cartridge! That's bad ju-ju!

[Ketchman]

There should be no problem with doing this INTENTIONALLY: ie: pulling the bullet, dropoing the powder, reloading the bullet and trying to fire it with just primer pressure. First of all, you SHOULD only be loading that one round and no others behind it in the mag, in fact I would not even have the mag in the gun, just load the one round into the chamber and pull the trigger. There will not be enough pressure in to cycle the slide so the casing will stay in the chamber and if the bullet does get stuck in the barrel, and you would know because you would be looking for it, the whole reason for the test. All you need to do is push the bullet through with a bit of dowel or cleaning rod. There will be no damage done to the gun. The primer cannot produce enough pressure to bulge the barrel and even if it could it would push the bullet ALL the way out the muzzle, thereby reducing the pressure. Have had squib loads in a .380, my Sig 220 in .45 and a 9mm leaving bullets in the bore each time. The presence of a squib load was announced each time by a less than load bang and failure to properly cycle the gun, at which time the bore was checked, the stuck bullet noticed and pushed out with a cleaning rod, or a tree branch when it happened to my SIG. At that time all remaining ammunition from that batch is now suspect and removed from possibility of future use, or fired ONE AT A TIME, ie: single shot style.
My bet is that it was a primer only no powder load that got fired. And let this be a lesson to everyone that it can happen to ALL manufacturers, as that is Hornady ammo and they have a very very good Quality control reputation. One of my squibs was from Black Hills who also has an extremely good quality control rep.
So, if any one wants to try the experiment, be very careful, be very smart and you should have no problems. I am not going to do it because A) just by looking at the picture I would BET it is a primer only load, B) I do not have reloading equipment to reload the bullet into the case.
Just remember, if you pull the trigger and it sounds strange, STOP, finger off the trigger, decock,drop the mag, empty the chamber and check the bore. It can happen.

[snailman153624]

The good news for semi-autos is that the squib probably doesn't have enough oomph to load the next round anyway, so odds are even if you pull the trigger again it won't fire (no guarantees it didn't cycle of course, but this is probably why as uncommon as squibs are, it's even rarer to hear about an incident where someone fired a 2nd round into the back of the first). You will not be so lucky with a DA revolver or bolt/lever action...or if you are silly enough to hand cycle it and fire again without clearing the barrel...

I would think that the two bullets probably have a good chance of leaving together, though...the 2nd one will compress the air between it and the squib, and/or ram into it, and I imagine both would be ejected...although there may be excess pressure behind the 2nd round since it will exit more slowly than intended. On a blowback pistol like the P64, this probably means a higher-than-normal case ejection velocity, or possibly exploded case shards.

[MakAttack]

Yeah, all I was saying that it would make for an interesting experiment. Does the primer have enough power to drive the bullet out the barrel? (like a .22 Kolibri does) If not, immediately remove the slide and tap the bullet out with a wooden dowel. No harm done. That might verify if a squib is possible if their wasn't powder in the cartridge.

I don't have a puller that would work with 9x18 or I'd do it myself.