Hammer Block Information

[robhic]

Since the hammer block thread (which was MOST interesting and informative) has ended, I thought I'd try something to add a bit of info I tried out at the range today....

No, sorry, I didn't discover a hammer block or some firing pin safety besides what is manually available on the gun, itself. What I DID do, was bring my heavily plastic-clad 2lb dead-blow hammer with me. I loaded up a round in the chamber of 2 1975 vintage P-64s, hammer down, safety 'OFF' in the fire, red dot visible position.

I then smacked the hammer smartly on the hammer. I couldn't get the gun to fire. Now, I didn't beat it like a rented mule but I hit it a few good hits from different directions and it didn't go off. It also did NOT dent any primers.

Is this anything 100%? Not on your life! If you drop the P-64 it could still fire because the FP is NOT - repeat NOT - blocked. But it does give you some idea (at least it did for me) that it can take a pretty decent blow and not fire. Not impossible, but it's not all that easy to get it to go off without pulling the trigger.

Food for thought. Please don't take this as anything scientific or professional! I am just an old dude and not a gunsmith.

[Ketchman]

Robhic,
I like the test, good info here. I must ask, when striking the hammer with the dead blow hammer were you holding it in your hand? Reason I am asking is that your hand would give an unsolid support, is: would have some give from the intertia of the dead blow hammer wanting to move the entire mass. I know MY hand would move some from that. And maybe that slight amount of energy absorbing movement could be the difference between Bang and No Bang. Just a thought.
However I must say your test was reasonably well thought out and the results have merit in my opinion. Thank you for doing it from the rest of us old dudes.

[robhic]

That's something I guess I didn't think about. Yes, I held both pistols in my left hand and struck them with the right. I hit the (triangle) hammer (I winced the first time hitting my baby!) from the back, right, left-ish, top and couldn't get a real clear hit from the bottom. I then ejected the round and the primer wasn't touched. I have no access to something like a Ransom Rest or vice or, I guess, anything I could bring to the range with me so other than holding it, I can't think of another option. But I think I got some pretty good whacks on it. The thick plastic on the hammer kept me from screaming as I hit it and the gun IS pretty sturdy so it was fine.

[Ketchman]

Well I still say your test gave us all some very good information and I agree with you that it is not very easy to get one to go off through an unintentional blow to the hammer although hit anything with enough force and it WILL move, just how much is that level of force. I myself carry with one in the chamber and safety off as I have been given advice that says if it is considered acceptable to carry a double action revolver with no safety as "safe" then a double action pistol with a stiffer than normal trigger pull with the safety off is just as "safe" from a lawful perspective. But then again, I am rather old school in that the best and most effective safety is between your ears, not milled from metal.
And thanks again for putting your babies in harms way for the sake of our knowledge.

[mountainfolk]

I have been reading these post about hammer block or fording pin safeties being absent from this pistol. I think that a da trigger is a good safety as in a da revolver but modern revolvers all have a transfer bar so if you drop it on the hammer it does not go off or if the hammer is pulled back just enough to miss the first spur it will not go off. Does the p 64 have a half dock spur that well catch if the hammer is partialy cocked so that it wont drop.

[robhic]

Does the p 64 have a half dock spur that well catch if the hammer is partialy cocked so that it wont drop.

I'll let those more fluent in what was found about hammer notches chime in. But from what I could gather, there isn't a half-cock position in the P-64. I took my guns and did the 'pencil test' without touching the trigger. I pulled the hammer back until it got to right before cocking. (It's tricky, they are pretty close.) I let the hammer go from almost full-cock, about (my guess) half-cock and the pencil jumped from the barrel on both. Enough to fire? I don't know. But something hit and launched that pencil! Not as far as full-cock, pulling the trigger but I am not going to speculate further. Get a pencil and have at it!

[Ketchman]

Also be aware that not all modern revolvers use a transfer bar safety. I bought a brand new Rossi 6 shot revolver (k frame size) that not only does not use a transfer bar but has the firing.pin on the hammer. And it was new in the box and of recent manufacture. By the way that is one hell of a good deal on a good quality revolver but thats for another thread.

[mountainfolk]

My wife and I are talking about the safety issues of a p 64 she wants an lc9s I wanted one to but only for practical reasons I like simple all steel guns myself. Ketchman do you fell safe carrying the rossi revolver with the hammer on a live round? I have an old single 6 and my dad always made me carry on an empty. Does the owners manual on the Rossi discus safe carry? Just wondering what's responsibly safe when carrying the p 64 if it could go off when droped. Anyone elses opinion would be welcome to. Thanks

[robhic]

If I said "No" it couldn't go off if dropped I'd be lying. Can it go off? Yes. The possibility is ALWAYS there. Will it go off? Maybe, it can and it might. That's the thing. There's no guarantee it won't shoot if that hammer is struck hard enough to make it strike the firing pin. It might take a heckuva blow but it still COULD happen. Do you feel lucky...?

[Curly1]

It's called a safety for a reason. don't use at your own risk and that of others.

[Ketchman]

mountianfolk,
Thank you for your concern but yes I do feel safe carrying the Rossi full up. It has a true hammer block safety, similiar to a transfer bar except this one is always in the "up" position and there fore keeping the hammer / firing pin from traveling far enough to reach a cartridge primer UNLESS the trigger has been pulled through a complete arc. Just before the trigger releases the hammer to fall it drops the hammer block to allow the hammer to travel forward enough to reach to primer.