P-83 with 2001 production date?
P-83 with 2001 production date?
I recently won a GB auction for a really nice looking P-83; currently awaiting delivery. I've done more reading since winning the auction and I seems well documented that production of the P-83 ceased in 2000. So what am I to make of this one marked 2001?
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
Welcome to the forum.
There were probably left overs still being being assembled as production wound down.
There were probably left overs still being being assembled as production wound down.
Laugh Hard and Often.
Gary
Gary
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
Ah ok.
Have any P-83 owners noticed any difference, quality or otherwise, between early, mid, and late production pistols?
Have any P-83 owners noticed any difference, quality or otherwise, between early, mid, and late production pistols?
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
If you post as many picture as you can it would help. But do you know what type of rear site yours has? I.E. Blade Military style, or Streamlined Novak style rear site? Also what are the markings on the slide? Is there an Eagle with "RADOM wz P-83 9x19 POLAND" stamped across the left of the slide, or is it just simply "9mm P-83" and an importer mark? Where are the SN/(11)/date markings?
There have been a few P-83s imported that weren't the standard Military surplus. Most notably the ones from Dalvar U.S.A. Dalvar imported a special batch of about 200, they were roughly referred to as the "Radom P-83" due to the above mentioned markings. Here are the two versions:
Dalvar import of 200:
Military Surplus:
Although by all accounts production stopped in 2000 it is possible that small batches continued for various customers/importers, money talks. For instance; although the VIS 35 was only manufactured between 1936 and 1939 at the Fabryka Broni in Radom (straight from their web page), we know that there were later productions. About August 1992, the Łucznik Arms Factory in Radom reintroduced the Vis pistol and produced a small series on the basis of the original plans and specifications, mainly for the collectors' market. Again these were also imported by Dalvar by special order, and a pretty penny. Some accounts mention they came with square sight notch instead of triangle, and walnut grips instead of plastic, also included were a lined wooden presentation box, spare magazine and cleaning kit it's price was around $2,500. Additionally there apparently were two exact copys made in 1992 with slide markings: "F.B. RADOM, 1992, VIS wz.35, pat. Nr 155567". Serial numbers: A00001 and A00002.
You can still see Dalvar's offerings as early as Jun. 2002 here, though Dec. 2009 here at the Way Back Machine.
At any rate; Yes officially P-83 production stopped in 2000. But that probably only reflects Military/Police production. So it is very much likely that yours was legitimately produced in 2001. If so you may have one of a small commercially produced batch. Yes it may add value to it to the right collect but probably not much.
There have been a few P-83s imported that weren't the standard Military surplus. Most notably the ones from Dalvar U.S.A. Dalvar imported a special batch of about 200, they were roughly referred to as the "Radom P-83" due to the above mentioned markings. Here are the two versions:
Dalvar import of 200:
Military Surplus:
Although by all accounts production stopped in 2000 it is possible that small batches continued for various customers/importers, money talks. For instance; although the VIS 35 was only manufactured between 1936 and 1939 at the Fabryka Broni in Radom (straight from their web page), we know that there were later productions. About August 1992, the Łucznik Arms Factory in Radom reintroduced the Vis pistol and produced a small series on the basis of the original plans and specifications, mainly for the collectors' market. Again these were also imported by Dalvar by special order, and a pretty penny. Some accounts mention they came with square sight notch instead of triangle, and walnut grips instead of plastic, also included were a lined wooden presentation box, spare magazine and cleaning kit it's price was around $2,500. Additionally there apparently were two exact copys made in 1992 with slide markings: "F.B. RADOM, 1992, VIS wz.35, pat. Nr 155567". Serial numbers: A00001 and A00002.
You can still see Dalvar's offerings as early as Jun. 2002 here, though Dec. 2009 here at the Way Back Machine.
At any rate; Yes officially P-83 production stopped in 2000. But that probably only reflects Military/Police production. So it is very much likely that yours was legitimately produced in 2001. If so you may have one of a small commercially produced batch. Yes it may add value to it to the right collect but probably not much.
Weasel
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
Thanks for the great explanation. I in fact did win the bid from Dalvar. I'm on my phone right now, when I get home I'll post pics from the auction.
It does have the military surplus hammer, as shown in your posted example, an no Eagle.
Pics to come soon! Thanks again!
It does have the military surplus hammer, as shown in your posted example, an no Eagle.
Pics to come soon! Thanks again!
Last edited by CheapShot on January 10th, 2013, 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
Images linked from the auction listing:
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
So now seeing the pictures with the serial number it looks like you have a combination of both what Curly and I said. Just speculation here, but I think that's the last of the last production run started some time in the mid 90s. Most likely sold into the commercial market rather than Military/Police surplus.
Yours falls into the correct serial number range for the production run started in 2000. You can see evidence of this when comparing it to another P-83 produced in 2000. You can see both serial numbers start with the numbers "SF", and yours is about 300 later in the series.:
Here is one that was produced slightly after yours so you don't have the very last of the last, but it seems you are close. It closed at $235 in Oct., so if you payed close or less you did good for a "2001".
Also here is another example of a 2001 P-83, it falls in that same "SF" series about 100 short of yours.
It also has the same unique "Cal. 9x18mm" stamp that yours has. I can't see the import markings but it looks to be in the same spot as yours, most likely the same importer.
Lastly it was also offered with an instruction manual that looks like it was printed by the factory for commercial use.
So I'd have to say these were part of the last run of 2000 that spilled into 2001 for commercial sale. Imported by the same importer most likely directly from the factory. The importer probably has more info than this, and probably can tell you what the very last one was that got imported or at least how far off yours is.
Yours falls into the correct serial number range for the production run started in 2000. You can see evidence of this when comparing it to another P-83 produced in 2000. You can see both serial numbers start with the numbers "SF", and yours is about 300 later in the series.:
Here is one that was produced slightly after yours so you don't have the very last of the last, but it seems you are close. It closed at $235 in Oct., so if you payed close or less you did good for a "2001".
Also here is another example of a 2001 P-83, it falls in that same "SF" series about 100 short of yours.
It also has the same unique "Cal. 9x18mm" stamp that yours has. I can't see the import markings but it looks to be in the same spot as yours, most likely the same importer.
Lastly it was also offered with an instruction manual that looks like it was printed by the factory for commercial use.
So I'd have to say these were part of the last run of 2000 that spilled into 2001 for commercial sale. Imported by the same importer most likely directly from the factory. The importer probably has more info than this, and probably can tell you what the very last one was that got imported or at least how far off yours is.
Weasel
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
Thanks for the info! I believe my P-83 should have arrived at the FFL today. I'll hopefully be picking it up tomorrow.
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
No worries, I have seen multiple 2001 P-83's in Poland, I guess some leftovers, really.
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Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
please fix the gunbroker photos. we all would like to see what you had posted...
CheapShot wrote:Images linked from the auction listing:
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
GB photos don't stay around that long GB deletes them after so many months.
Laugh Hard and Often.
Gary
Gary
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
I have the P 83 serial # 304 digits later than the one posted by Weasel also from Dalvar dated 2001
Edit; Dalvar went the extra mile to get the decocker right on mine.Fine businessman.
Edit; Dalvar went the extra mile to get the decocker right on mine.Fine businessman.
Re: P-83 with 2001 production date?
Does anyone know if Dalvar still is able to special order the stuff that had been on his page? Or is he just doing the Gunbroker thing now for online sales?Hastings wrote:I have the P 83 serial # 304 digits later than the one posted by Weasel also from Dalvar dated 2001
Edit; Dalvar went the extra mile to get the decocker right on mine.Fine businessman.
Also like Curly said, once Gunbroker takes to pictures down you can't get them back unless they have been archived somewhere.
Weasel
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.