Safety Tempering

Mods and Fixes by P-64 users...
GuitarmanNick
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: March 19th, 2017, 10:04 am
Location: Maryland

Safety Tempering

Post by GuitarmanNick » October 26th, 2018, 10:00 am

I am curious to know if anyone has looked into doing a heat treatment on the P-64 safety to improve it's resistance to breaking. I searched the boards but did not find anything relevant. Of course, this would also require me to know more about the metal it is made from. I am not well versed in heat treating metal, but thought it may be worth looking into for this part. :?:

Ketchman
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 1016
Joined: December 24th, 2011, 4:36 pm
Location: Wyoming, USA

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Ketchman » October 26th, 2018, 3:08 pm

I would think knowledge of the metallurgy of the part would be required before a proper heat treatment could be done.
Close enough for Government work will get you dead, ask any Vet.

GuitarmanNick
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: March 19th, 2017, 10:04 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by GuitarmanNick » October 26th, 2018, 8:50 pm

I am thinking that information was probably a trade secret. Was kinda hoping that someone may have some insight. I know enough to realize I do not want to grind on mine to test the part.
If someone has a broken safety, I think an observation of the sparks generated when grinding can give a good indication of what it is and whether or not it could be treated further.
Like I said, I am not well versed in heat treating metals. I seem to recall that grinding was the way an old friend used to test metals before using them for projects. Guess I should have paid more attention but I was usually working on the wiring.

ronj10
Posts: 2
Joined: November 6th, 2018, 8:23 am

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by ronj10 » November 20th, 2018, 12:48 pm

Sparks. That is an old toolmakers trick. It works when you have only 3 or 4 steels in your shop and you can compare sparks.
Won't work cold turkey as a good identifier of material.

I am not a gunsmith but I am a aerospace manufacturing engineer with 40 years experience in heat treat applications.
Increasing the hardness of this part would be detrimental, in my opinion. It has so much metal removed that the thin sections would be prone to fracture if it were to be hardened. Typically hardness equals brittleness. But not always. Depends on the metal. Lab steels like O1 or D2 can be hardened to 62 RC and take alot of repetitive shock, but not bending (deformation).
I doubt the metal in that part is a tool steel. Probably inexpensive steel with a case harden. At best it is 8620 and case hardened.
That gives you the best of both worlds. Soft core but hard exterior, and cheap to make.
Still, the cross sections are so thin that even a case harden can lead to a brittle part.

I think this part had design trade-offs. Typical in manufacturing. The designer knew it could fracture but the proper metal and manufacturing would have been cost prohibitive. Besides, it was a military gun, Part breaks, just put in a new one. I don't think the designer was trying to make a high quality firearm. Seriously, this aint no S&W, Sig, Browning or Kimber!

And what metal it is is no trade secret. We a have a hand held spectrometer where I work that will give me an exact chemistry of the material. It can also be RC tested for hardness.
Metals are no secret if you have the equipment :-)

I have to do a dis-assemble of my pistol to clean it and figure out a dis-connector issue.
Maybe I can pull the safety catch also.
I could take some of these parts to work and scan them for material.
I can also do some hardness testing.

User avatar
Curly1
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 2383
Joined: September 20th, 2011, 11:35 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Curly1 » November 20th, 2018, 2:15 pm

That would be cool Ron if you can do that!
Laugh Hard and Often.

Gary

GuitarmanNick
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: March 19th, 2017, 10:04 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by GuitarmanNick » November 20th, 2018, 2:39 pm

It would be nice to know a little more. I will be watching to see what you find, Ron.

Ketchman
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 1016
Joined: December 24th, 2011, 4:36 pm
Location: Wyoming, USA

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Ketchman » November 20th, 2018, 4:31 pm

+2 on learning more.
Close enough for Government work will get you dead, ask any Vet.

User avatar
manicmechanic
Veteran member
Veteran member
Posts: 629
Joined: November 19th, 2006, 8:28 pm
Location: michigan, down the river

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by manicmechanic » November 28th, 2018, 7:13 am

Ron, that would be one small step for.......

User avatar
Weasel640
Forum supporter
Forum supporter
Posts: 624
Joined: March 13th, 2010, 9:14 pm
Location: Nothing permanent.

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Weasel640 » January 5th, 2019, 1:02 am

Figured I'd throw it in here... In no way am I associated with the guy... But apparently someone on eBay had P-64 Safeties made and he is selling the extras. It's a steep asking price in my opinion, but I know a lot of people keep asking for these.
Weasel

When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.

Ketchman
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 1016
Joined: December 24th, 2011, 4:36 pm
Location: Wyoming, USA

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Ketchman » January 5th, 2019, 1:13 am

I for one would be interested to know if they fit AND function. They look really close.
Close enough for Government work will get you dead, ask any Vet.

Nodakdad
Posts: 9
Joined: January 17th, 2015, 10:25 pm

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Nodakdad » January 5th, 2019, 11:56 am

Same here, if they work i might be interested in one.

User avatar
Weasel640
Forum supporter
Forum supporter
Posts: 624
Joined: March 13th, 2010, 9:14 pm
Location: Nothing permanent.

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Weasel640 » January 5th, 2019, 12:36 pm

Nodakdad wrote:
January 5th, 2019, 11:56 am
Same here, if they work i might be interested in one.
Ketchman wrote:
January 5th, 2019, 1:13 am
I for one would be interested to know if they fit AND function. They look really close.
From the way I read his listing; He did not make them, he had them made. I could be wrong but I think it's only the seven that he has. It could be worth someone messaging him and asking about who made them, etc.
Weasel

When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.

User avatar
Curly1
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 2383
Joined: September 20th, 2011, 11:35 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Curly1 » January 5th, 2019, 2:20 pm

You can make him an offer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polish-Model-P ... :rk:1:pf:0


Cleaning out my shop and ran across these. I had some trouble with some P64s a few years ago and had a local machine shop make some new parts .These safety selectors were machined on CNC equipment and if I remember correctly made with 4140 pre-hard and should be stronger than the original. Given that this part of this part I am not selling this ONLY for use in the deactivated "SZKOLNY" model for display and training use. For some reason the tab was machined with fewer serrations so there are some slight cosmetic differences. In the second picture you can see the New selector compared with on of the originals. The worked fine in all of the P64 "SZKOLNY" rehabs that I did but there may be minor hand fitting required .
Laugh Hard and Often.

Gary

Nodakdad
Posts: 9
Joined: January 17th, 2015, 10:25 pm

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Nodakdad » January 9th, 2019, 8:46 pm

See one is now sold, wonder if it was anyone here.
I made a couple offers but weren't accepted. Still on the fence on grabbing one.

Nodakdad
Posts: 9
Joined: January 17th, 2015, 10:25 pm

Re: Safety Tempering

Post by Nodakdad » January 15th, 2019, 11:05 pm

I pulled the trigger and bought one.
Hopefully functions well

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests