The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

Im a new member, just waiting for new shipments of ammo to come in. I own a 1977 P-64 and love it. Considering doing spring change. Just wondering if Obamas plan to stop importing some old war surplus guns will effect importing 9x18 ammo.

Welcome to the forum.

You can get ammo here.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5359

Welcome to the forum. You can reload and save money.

Dennis wrote:Welcome to the forum. You can reload and save money.

I've run the numbers, unless you make less than minimum wage at your job, there is absolutely no way you actually save money.

Welcome.

Here use these two to find and compare ammo prices:

http://gun-deals.com/list/ammo/9x18+%2528Makarov%2529

http://gunbot.net/ammo/pistol/9x18/

It has been coming back and getting easier to find. You'll notice that the prices are dropping too.

snailman153624 wrote:

Dennis wrote:Welcome to the forum. You can reload and save money.

I've run the numbers, unless you make less than minimum wage at your job, there is absolutely no way you actually save money.

In general, I agree with the sentiment. However, there may be some mitigating factors you have to figure in.

Your most important assumption is that your personal time is not "free" and, when doing a cost-benefit analysis, must rate your time at a certain dollar-per-hour rate. While generally true, this is not always true.

First, many people feel that reloading is a "hobby" and their personal time is, therefore, "off the books" so to speak. You don't hour-rate your time when shooting, fishing, or building ships in a bottle, why do so if one of your hobbies is working up the exact perfect load for your P64 (which will likely be slightly different than the exact perfect load for your CZ82)?

Second, many people accept a personal time cost "loss" for any number of tasks that they want or need done. When it comes right down to it, most of us are DIY dish-washers, launderers, and maids. While if we factor in our personal time-cost estimate, it would make more sense to work more hours at our job and pay someone a Service Industry wage to wash our dishes, almost none of us do that. Why? Sometimes because of...

Third, just because we can work X number of hours per week and earn Y number of dollars per hour doesn't always mean that we can work X+x number of hours per week. Particularly in this economy, many of us are limited to X and only X hours per week. Some of us also make Y dollars per pay period regardless of how many hours put in. I, myself, and limited to no more than 40 hours per week, period. If I exceed that, I do not get OT, my company comps time out the next week. I've also worked jobs where I was "Salaried." If I worked 8 hours or 80, per week, I still was only paid Y dollars. In these cases, and in many others, what is a person to do who wants to attain more ammo? Get a second job?

These are just a couple of reasons that come to mind.

On the other hand, sometimes my time is worth more than money. I have two children and a wife. I'll be dipped if I'm singing "Cat's in the Cradle" 15 years from now. And sometimes my personal "down time" doesn't include high concentration tasks with requirements for exacting measurements on small items with a nearly infinite repetition. Further, I have a LOT of hobbies that fill up my time. I teach martial arts 4 times a week, go to church, and occasionally I get to eat a meal. (and of course, there's all that housework that it's more economical to pay someone else to do, right?)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

There can be yet another factor on re-loading. There are those of us whose homes are too small to have any suitable space.

I agree with pretty much everything you guys are saying. However, one reason I don't (and likely never will) hire someone to do my dishes, for example, is that it would still involve my personal time to oversee said employee, ergo I spent just as much time finding, hiring, and dealing with this employee than I would have just washing my dishes. It's also horribly inconvenient; what if I run out of dishes a few days before they are scheduled to come wash them? This is one of those things that only saves time/money when performed on a large scale. This is largely why I also do my own automotive work (from basic repairs to engine replacements)...I know my cars inside and out, and can troubleshoot and repair things on my own in less time than it would take me to schedule an appointment, drop it off, explain the problem, pick it up, and deal with improper repairs, etc. (not to mention the labor that went into earning the money to offset the cost).

If you enjoy reloading (and it's something I've been wanting to try, by the way), then by all means do it...but I feel folks are lying to themselves (perhaps to feel better about doing it?) by claiming they are saving money. For me the biggest reason would be the satisfaction of knowing I was that much more self-sufficient.

Hurryin' Hoosier wrote:There can be yet another factor on re-loading. There are those of us whose homes are too small to have any suitable space.

I agree. This is also a factor for me. My Man Cave is used for Western Martial Arts practice and whatever space I have left (little) is taken by my existing tools (mostly general use and general woodworking).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

snailman153624 wrote:I agree with pretty much everything you guys are saying. However, one reason I don't (and likely never will) hire someone to do my dishes, for example, is that it would still involve my personal time to oversee said employee, ergo I spent just as much time finding, hiring, and dealing with this employee than I would have just washing my dishes. It's also horribly inconvenient; what if I run out of dishes a few days before they are scheduled to come wash them? This is one of those things that only saves time/money when performed on a large scale. This is largely why I also do my own automotive work (from basic repairs to engine replacements)...I know my cars inside and out, and can troubleshoot and repair things on my own in less time than it would take me to schedule an appointment, drop it off, explain the problem, pick it up, and deal with improper repairs, etc. (not to mention the labor that went into earning the money to offset the cost).

If you enjoy reloading (and it's something I've been wanting to try, by the way), then by all means do it...but I feel folks are lying to themselves (perhaps to feel better about doing it?) by claiming they are saving money. For me the biggest reason would be the satisfaction of knowing I was that much more self-sufficient.

I agree.

My point is that I've never yet seen a cost analysis, either pro or con, on reloading which really took into account all of the salient factors, business style, and even if they did, most likely, their numbers would be specific to them and not necessarily relevant to any one but them.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

What the H... is going on with all these "trollers" or "spammers" or "phishers" or whatever they are? There must be some holes in the firewall, somewhere.

They basically troll through web addresses and look for certain markers in the HTTP content that's sent back...many providers of common forum software (this one included) contain information specifying the version of software running the site.

They compile lists of these sites, then run them through software that exploits known vulnerabilities in those versions to automatically register spam accounts, then have it start posting junk (or worse, somehow manage to take over the site).

It's all automated, and I've never really figured out what the business case could be...I highly doubt they get very many clicks on any site...but that pretty much has to be it...they're linking to commercial sites that pay them for referrals, which are tracked with special URLs the commercial site can use to tell how you arrived at their site.

snailman153624 wrote:

Dennis wrote:Welcome to the forum. You can reload and save money.

I've run the numbers, unless you make less than minimum wage at your job, there is absolutely no way you actually save money.

I try to do fifty rounds a week. I reload fifty 9x18 in half an hour. The tumbler does most of the heavy lifting. The rate of wear of the press, tumbler and other items is negligible so unless it's confiscated (not very likely) I don't count their capital costs.

Per the handloader http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Materials costs for Missouri Bullets, $65 per 1000, $40 per 1000 for primers and cheap rot gut Reddot is 43 cents for all fifty rounds. Total cost is 6.88.

FWIW - I cannot find any other bullets right now then the cast ones. I have hollow points but do not shoot them. Berrys has quit making them.

BTW - for handguns powder is incredibly cheap. I could have used Vitavouri powder at 30.00 a pound for 69 cents per fifty. Powder gets spendy when you reload for rifles.

So let's do the arithmetic...

I can get a 50 box of 9x17mm from S&B for about $19.00 if it's available. I may need to visit several shops. Online I can sometimes find S&B or Prvi Partisan.... maybe. I'll spent a lot of time finding that box too. I have a tiny stash of Silver Bear but it's not going any where.

I'd have to make $12.12 an hour at a part time job to justify the S&B. That's assuming I can find those bullets.


What really works for reloading for the 9x18mm is that the stuff is hard to come by right now....

snailman153624 wrote:If you enjoy reloading (and it's something I've been wanting to try, by the way), then by all means do it...but I feel folks are lying to themselves (perhaps to feel better about doing it?) by claiming they are saving money. For me the biggest reason would be the satisfaction of knowing I was that much more self-sufficient.

The best advantage of reloading I see right now is having something to shoot. Imported ammo is tough to get right now because everyone wants to stockpile. Prices continue to climb.

In the last six months I've been using 22 LR with a target pistol. Trouble is that 22 LR is getting outrageous in price IF you can obtain it.

I'm going back to 9x18. I have a few Maks and two P-64s.

The hardest issue of 9x18 is brass. I am starting to make 9x18 out of NATO 9mm. I am doing it for the fun of it. Starline brass,when you can get it, is a better buy for your time if you load 9x18. At eighty percent recovery rate I am "losing" six minutes of time per shooting session.


The long and short of it - if you want it make do.

If not, best of luck.