The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

Hello! I realize this is extremely off topic but in my experience here at this site, people here are very intelligent. More so than any other site I have been on. I have discussed this topic with lots of people worldwide and I was just curious on how you guys would respond to it. I hope I do not offend anybody and that this random topic is acceptable. I promise to stay on topic for now on. I love my p-64 except for the ammo. Anyways, on to my point. I have most recently been watching the show 'future weapons' on Discovery channel. It is amazing what humans have created. Then again you cant help but wonder how much that stuff must cost. Then I went back to President Eisenhower's farewell address and his opinion on the military industrial complex. He says,

"We now stand ten years past a midpoint of a century that has seen four major wars upon great nations, three of which involved our own country". He later goes on to discuss the dangers of the industrial military complex and the threat of misplaced power in our government. What really caught my attention was his stance on military funding. Again remember, Eisenhower was the ultimate pro-military President. He was the supreme allied commander of World War 2. Here is his opinion on the military budget,

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron." President Dwight D Eisenhower.

Eisenhower put things in ways other people did not see it as. Honestly, how many people really think about this whenever they watch 'future weapons'. I honestly do not. I think how badass the guns are. But it is something that we should all think about in my opinion. There really is a fine line between caring for our citizens and protecting them. But when does it go too far? When does America switch from being a symbol of democracy, freedom, and peace to a symbol of imperialism? Are these expensive gadgets with extra bells and whistles just lining the pockets of our politicians such as Haloburton and Dick Cheney? These are all of my questions that I ask. I also did some calculations for myself and I would like to share a few of them. Most of them are weapons that come right off the show,

1 f14 tomcat can buy 1.5 billion bushels of grain. enough to feed Somalia, Sudan, Niger, and Ethiopia combined.

1 M1 Abrams can buy 10 modern library's

1 Corner Shot 40 rifle can buy 233 malaria vaccines

1 LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device) can buy 13 modern well systems

1 Gerald R Ford aircraft carrier can buy 1,300 modern schools, 26 billion bushels of grain, enough to give every human more than 4 bushels of grain a piece.

Again, I did not write this to start a controversy but to simply get constructive feedback. I really do not have an answer and I dont know if there really is an answer. I'm sorry that I am off topic. What do you think?????

A few idiots and some box cutters can take down the Twin Towers in NYC and kill thousands of people.

It's unfortunate that we need to have these weapons. We could do a lot more for humanity if we did not.

We could probably given every terrorist in Iraq $1,000,000 to leave us alone for the cost of one week's occupation. Too bad it doesn't work that way.

I wonder why you chose this forum for your post? You don't have much experience here, and your questions would appear somewhat more appropriate if there were people here you had interacted with and could judge and appreciate their reactions.

Gentlemen:

I agree with both of you. I do think that we sometimes escalate something just because it will be the big boys can make money off of. In fact, there may be precious few wars where the motivation was not, at least in part, financial. That's a hard fact, but every voting citizen should be aware of it when he or she goes to the voting booth.

By the same token, Space's point is very well taken. It doesn't take a lot of bucks or even a lot of intelligence to kill a lot of very innocent people. I guess I could sell both my P-64's and have enough money to feed a child in Africa who admittedly is very needy, for about a year. But then what? Like Space says, we could probably give every terrorist a million bucks to leave us alone and it could seem cost effective, but after a while, the novelty would wear off and they'd still be a problem, or at least that's what I tend to think.

Perhaps the happy medium might be the best solution. Making arms that are truly needed for defense (not just to make the Haluburton folks happier) and also making sure that the responsible citizen is armed, if that person choses to be. I still tend to think that a 'grass roots' approach of having citizens armed is one of the best deterents against tyranny--either from within or from without.

Just one person's opinion. I wish I "knew" the solutions.

these questions are appropriate for every American. I have no experience here as well as other sites. I'm just an average joe wanting to get something out there. People here are smart, I want to hear smart comments, thats all.

Freedom is not cheap & the world is not a perfect, perhaps you
are on this forum for your own agenda. These other countries
have governments & their citizens are first their responsiblies,
guilt tripping America is not the solution to their problems.
Don't use this forum for your soapbox.


::)

Our ability to help others, as we have through the years more than any other nation in the world or in history, depends on our strength and security. The evil of the world study war as their main course in order to over-throw the good and enrich and empower themselves. Staying one step ahead of that is the job of our government, our military and the arms industry. Carrying the "biggest stick" is an absolute necessity for secure industrial and agricultural production and other endeavors that produce profit from which comes the ability to provide aid and comfort to those in need, world-wide.

Here is a thought:

God is in control.

We are not able, nor expected, to solve all of the world's problems. Our responsibility is to do our duty justly and honorably.

The idea that we could simply "disarm" for peace, while certainly appealing, is not based in reality. As "Space" said, it simply doesn't work that way.

God is good. Life is short.

Or as someone once said, "A man's got to know his limitations . . . and trust God for the rest."

GBASS,

-Kempin

This shall be my last comment on this topic. I realize I have caused more harm than good which is never a good thing. This forum is for a great weapon and those who love it and I have misused this forum for my own opinion. For this I regret posting this topic and apologize for anything that I have written, it was not in my intentions. Also I would like to point out that I never intended to 'guilt trip' anybody, especially my own countrymen. I realize that several nations I mentioned have their own governments, etc. But, whenever is it a bad thing to help out others in need? Dont forget, most of what was written came from Eisenhower. He was the main inspiration for me to write this piece. Again, I cannot help but to voice my opinion and this site is not the one to do it at. My fiance died almost one year ago and she was the person who I discussed all of my political and social opinions with. Unfortunately she is not around and it gets so lonely around here so as you can imagine ideas tend to build up in one's head and the internet was a quick fix to be heard. However, this is not an acceptable excuse for this forum. Please dont write any more flames towards me. I realize my mistake and I apologize. I do not wish to empose any more to those who are here. I especially dont want to make anybody here mad since everybody here has a gun! To those who responded to it, I really appreciate you diverging away from the p64 and giving your input. It has helped me tremendously. I am sorry for turning this great p64 site into the O-Reily Factor. Happy shooting everybody!

Sincerely Dane Randall

dane

Well said. Welcome to the forum. For me this forum is a great temporary refuge from the troubles of society. Heard any good P-64 stories lately?

Dane -- join a greivement group in your area, your need to deal
with your lost not the rest of the world's short comings. Get to
the range & vent on some bad man targets -- God bless & find
peace from within.

I wonder why you chose this forum for your post? You don't have much experience here, and your questions would appear somewhat more appropriate if there were people here you had interacted with and could judge and appreciate their reactions.

+1 with nbender!!! Hey, keep coming back, and by the way we really like photo's, and range reports and such.

See Ya,

Papabear

I hope you get a P-64 and learn to use it safely so that when some big creep with a tire iron, baseball bat, knife or gun of his own busts in and atacks you that you are able to defend your life, thereby extending your ability to be good to others. You can't be charitable if you are dead.

There are 2 views here... Left Wing - Be charitable and give America away to everyone who begs everywhere in the world and screw Americans. Right Wing - Send the war machine around the world and blow up anyone who doesn't embrace our idea of democracy and screw Americans. To me there is only ONE right point of view. LIBERTARIAN - Secure the borders, TIGHTLY limit immegration, and start doing for Americans who were born here, and stop spending money on everyone else. Where the hell is my healthcare? Oh, one more thing -- Also send Madonna with condoms and instructions to all African nations with a note saying "this is all the help you are getting". Vermont is full of left wing liberals who want to give the milk away! Just my 2 cents since you started the thread. Since you mentioned the war machine I agree with the war ... The one in Afganistan. We should have had 300,000 troops on the ground looking for Bin Laden within weeks, not Iraq. Better yet let's stop meddling and funding guys like him and Hussein in the first place. Let them all fight it out and kill each other. We'd have a lot less to worry about. That why we need McCain in 08', or better yet - Lou Dobbs! . This is my last reply on this board to such an off topic post. Signed.. Centered Libertarian

Eisenhower had seen both the horrors of war and the flowers of peace...and it was clear that he knew which he liked more.

Unfortunately, as long as there are assholes in the world that are ruining things for everyone, a strong military is a necessity. What we need to be very careful of is that we don't turn into the assholes.