Can't get Wolff recoil spring installed

[Frank N. Stein]

Hey folks.

I just picked up my first P64 a few weeks ago. I took everyone's advice and picked up some Wolff springs. I replaced the recoil spring to 18 pounds and trigger pull is now much better. However, I'm having a hard time installing Wolff's 20 lb. recoil spring. I'm installing it properly on the barrel (long end facing out) but I can't the slide back on the pistol for the life of me. Once I pull the slide back it doesn't seem to want to "catch" with the frame and the entire slide pops right off.

I've tried this a number of times in a number of ways and there's no way that the slide will stay on with this new recoil spring. When I use the original spring it works without hassle every single time. Anyone know how I could get the slide on with the Wolff spring?

[lklawson]

Hey folks.

I just picked up my first P64 a few weeks ago. I took everyone's advice and picked up some Wolff springs. I replaced the recoil spring to 18 pounds and trigger pull is now much better. However, I'm having a hard time installing Wolff's 20 lb. recoil spring. I'm installing it properly on the barrel (long end facing out) but I can't the slide back on the pistol for the life of me. Once I pull the slide back it doesn't seem to want to "catch" with the frame and the entire slide pops right off.

I've tried this a number of times in a number of ways and there's no way that the slide will stay on with this new recoil spring. When I use the original spring it works without hassle every single time. Anyone know how I could get the slide on with the Wolff spring?

I have this problem with my P64. Both with the stock recoil spring and the replacement. It just doesn't want to slip back into position easily. Use a wood block to brace the slide on as you push the frame forward. That way you can use your other hand to wiggle the slide around until it finds the right place to lock in.

You can use the edge of your work-bench but don't use the edge of your dining room table unless you don't mind angering your wife.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[JB7748]

This is what needs to be done for a proper fit just like the original.

Help... My Slide Won't Come Off!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3447&p=39194&hilit=jb7748#p39194

[Frank N. Stein]

This is what needs to be done for a proper fit just like the original.

Help... My Slide Won't Come Off!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3447&p=39194&hilit=jb7748#p39194

So it looks like I just need to sand it down a bit?

[JB7748]

I am 99% sure that is the problem and yes just sand down both ends of the spring. Kinda funny that the tiny bit of material keeps the slide from fitting. Also squeeze the trigger bar (21) and slide stop lever (22) together that has caused some assembly frustrations.

P64 Parts List
http://www.p64resource.com/media.php

[Frank N. Stein]

I am 99% sure that is the problem and yes just sand down both ends of the spring. Kinda funny that the tiny bit of material keeps the slide from fitting. Also squeeze the trigger bar (21) and slide stop lever (22) together that has caused some assembly frustrations.

P64 Parts List
http://www.p64resource.com/media.php

Excellent, I will try that tonight! Thank you!

Also, I plan on taking this pistol in to a gunsmith to have a look at before I fire it just in case. Do you folks normally do that or am I just wasting my time since many smiths may not be familiar with this pistol?

[Wile E. Coyote]

I had the same problem with the bloody thing. I then read somewhere that the ends of the new spring should be ground ("flattened") to look like the original spring. Seemed stupid, but I broke out the faithful Dremel tool and I gingerly "ground off" some of the rounded edges at each end of the spring so that they had that flattened look.

NOTE: If using a Dremel; please don't get overzealous when removing the metal... it might even behoove you to use a needle file or some 220 - 320 grit sandpaper to do the work instead. It is often much safer (smarter too), to do this kind of task manually with small files and sandpaper (or emery cloth). I keep various grits on hand up to (down to?) 40 and on to 3000 and have one of those inexpensive 10pc needle file sets, (plus additionally small triangle, flat, and rat-tail files).

BTW, you can really put a nice mirror finish on something with those high numbered grit papers--just take your time and make sure to have a good assortment of the finer papers to work your way from rougher to smoothest finish. The synthetic steel wools (along with regular steel wools) can also make a nice finish.

I've had a lot of years of experience in toy repair (a rewarding favourite hobby of mine). I've accumulated many of these tools in the past 20 years or so. Homespun gunsmithing is relatively new to me, but the principles are similar in many cases.

Let us know how you make out.

Regards,
Wile E. Coyote (new to the Resource)

[Frank N. Stein]

This was great advice. I sanded both ends down with some 220 grit sandpaper and now the slide comes on and off like a champ. You guys really know your stuff!

So now I got both Wolff springs installed properly and now I'm going to take it to a smith to check it for fit and function. It looks like it's in perfect condition but you never know.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Glad to hear of your success. BTW... did you install the extra power firing pin spring? (Unless they've changed things, there should have been one included in the 20lb main spring bag.) That one is a real challenge to install--but patience is supposed to be a virtue, isn't it?

SOME INTERESTING THINGS:
Comparing the modified P64 with a friend's Walther PPK/S, I wouldn't want to compare the two very closely. The 9x18 is only barely more potent than the .380ACP, but not enough to make a fuss over. The sights ARE nicer on the Walther, but some clever metal work and paint could even things up a bit. The trigger pulls are almost dead even (now), but I'm pretty certain that a complete disassembly and careful polishing could tip the scales either way. Importantly (for people with larger hands), the P64 slide doesn't slice the hand as readily as the PPK/S's slide (but it--the Walther--is a 'slightly' smaller gun).

The previous items only matter a lot if going CCW with either piece. For just plain old fun, the P64 costs much less to buy and 'feed'. The extra cost for the springs and installation is well worth it and gives it a whole new character.

Enjoy!!!
Wile E.

[Frank N. Stein]

BTW... did you install the extra power firing pin spring?

Nope, I did not install this one. Is this a requirement or a "nice to have"?

Also, I actually do have a Walther PPK (a newer one from S&W) which is one of the reasons I opted to get the P64. I'm going to be carrying the P64 once I get a smith to look at it and once I get some good practice with it. My PPK is actually headed back to S&W because I can't get the slide off to field strip it. It still shoots (and accurately at that) but this hiccup makes me question the PPK's overall reliability. That's where the P64 comes in.

[Wile E. Coyote]

It's not imperative unless you're having "light strikes" or misfires, or indications that wear or abuse is present. I only did it to keep the springs all new.

I've not handled the S&W made PPK. Just the early 80's models made in the USA, and also a WWII vintage Dural framed PPK in .22LR. That little (Nazi marked) pistol was a jewel and very costly. I couldn't afford it at the time ($2k was the price).

I'll check with my (wealthier) shooting pal who has a late 80's Stainless PPK and see if he has any problems with disassembly. His pistol runs like a Swiss clock, and it does shoot nicely; but at least once during the shooting session, it manages to slice my bear paw sized hand across the web and IT HURTS! The P64 gives me more clearance there, and thus far (knock on wood), not one slice of hand--yet!

I've read where others have had problem with taking the slide off a S&W mfd PPK. You might want to do a little "Googling" and read what others have done. It's a pity that a gun that costs that much can't have all the glitches fixed before it gets to the consumer. Never saw a German made PPK have any problems.

Keep me in the loop as to your progress with things. I think I mentioned that I'm a "tinkerer", so all this stuff is fascinating to me. I love to see the solutions.

Regards,
Wile E.

[Frank N. Stein]

It's not imperative unless you're having "light strikes" or misfires, or indications that wear or abuse is present. I only did it to keep the springs all new.

I've not handled the S&W made PPK. Just the early 80's models made in the USA, and also a WWII vintage Dural framed PPK in .22LR. That little (Nazi marked) pistol was a jewel and very costly. I couldn't afford it at the time ($2k was the price).

I'll check with my (wealthier) shooting pal who has a late 80's Stainless PPK and see if he has any problems with disassembly. His pistol runs like a Swiss clock, and it does shoot nicely; but at least once during the shooting session, it manages to slice my bear paw sized hand across the web and IT HURTS! The P64 gives me more clearance there, and thus far (knock on wood), not one slice of hand--yet!

I've read where others have had problem with taking the slide off a S&W mfd PPK. You might want to do a little "Googling" and read what others have done. It's a pity that a gun that costs that much can't have all the glitches fixed before it gets to the consumer. Never saw a German made PPK have any problems.

Keep me in the loop as to your progress with things. I think I mentioned that I'm a "tinkerer", so all this stuff is fascinating to me. I love to see the solutions.

Regards,
Wile E.

Sounds good. The P64 I got from J&G looks like it has never been fired so hopefully that spring will be in excellent shape.

As far as the PPK goes, I believe that S&W has a history of not installing properly fitted springs which would result in not being able to field strip. I was thinking about getting some springs from Wolff for the PPK just in case so I don't have to deal with this headache again. I certainly wouldn't mind picking up an Interarms PPK or even a French or German one.

What's funny is that they pretty much knew of the problem when I called them. The call was less than five minutes long. It pretty much went "I can't field strip my PPK?" "Oh is that right? Wonder what would cause that! Here's a shipping label!" This guy had obviously heard of this issue before and knew exactly what the deal was without putting his own company down.

[Wile E. Coyote]

I say, it really is pathetic that a pistol with the Walther reputation (that's been around since the late 1920's) can't be correctly manufactured and finished by "any" good modern facility and manufacturer. Taurus doesn't have any trouble making Beretta 92 copies or S&W revolver clones... so why is it so tough...??? Hopefully, they (S&W), will take care of things properly and at no charge to you.

I remember my parents telling me of how various manufacturers switched over to wartime production during WWII (without much trouble either). There were a few places that really made some excellent quality war materiel. (for example... a sewing machine maker can build 1911 pistols and very nice ones at that; or a tire building plant making .50cal Browning ammunition.)

The cost of a new decent pistol is out of control (except for a few C&R and milsurp guns). Unfortunately, I didn't get to enjoy any of the really low cost milsurp pieces. I know I missed out, but sometimes life gets in the way. I had been fighting chronic illness for the past 15 years or so. I was an I&C tech., so I had a good background for fixing things... but after the TIA, I had a rough time remembering some things. Finances were very tight during that period (still mostly are for that matter), so my hobby budget was very lean.

Recently, I've considered taking a mail-order gunsmithing course just for my own benefit, and if health should improve (enough), I have a friend who I could partner with (he has a flourishing gunsmithing business and could use another person).

As I said, keep me in the loop... I'd be very interested to see how S&W handles things at their end.

Enjoy life!
Wile E.

[dfunk]

The firing pin spring is included with the recoil spring (which is not necessary to begin with) to maintain proper timing of the firing pin to retract back when the slide moves rearward.

[lklawson]

The 9x18 is only barely more potent than the .380ACP, but not enough to make a fuss over.

rom "Jonnin" on the KTOG forum[/url]:

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/bcompare.cgi to compare the ammo.

9x18 standard loads are equal to 380 defense loads. 9x18 defense loads are very close to 9x19 (standard 9mm) target loads.

The chart from the site gives averages:

type vel nrg grains
1. .380 Auto (9mm Kurtz) 890 183 105
2. 9 x 18 Makarov 995 216 98
3. 9mm Luger (Parabellum) 1145 346 121

with the weakest 9mm energy being about 290 and the strongest mak being 275. The strongest 380 is almost 200 and the second weakest mak is 175. (I do not believe the 75 energy mak entry is correct, maybe its a safety slug or something really odd).

The internet mak reloading data that I encounterd suggested that the SAAMI data for the mak is lowball because some of the FEG pistols cannot handle much more pressure safely. Better maks (east german, etc) can handle loads very close to standard 9mm. I cannot vouch for this and have not tried to make a stouter loading. Proceed with caution!

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk