.38 S&W Ctg.

[juniustaylor]

I've got an old .38 S&W revolver. It's a confusing piece because I don't know if it's actually a pre-model 10 or if it's a model 11. Anyway, it was my grandpa's old revolver and I do believe it was his gun when he worked as a policeman. I think it was built in the late 30's.

I loaded up some ammo for it. I used Unique (3 grs) with a 145 gr MO Bullet. These things chrono around 732 fps. The accuracy is amazing I do believe. Elsewhere on here I have posted the ammo and gun in the Photo's section under the topic Reloading Stuff - Dream Come True. There is a target on there that I shot at 6-shots 10 yards.

Well, I decided to push it out and shoot it at 25 yards. I had my sight alignment with the tip of the front sight blade flush with the top of the rear sight (fixed sights). I fired 3 shots. None of them hit the box except for 1 and it was at the very bottom of the box so I was hitting low. Shooting at O in the SYSCO logo.

My dad fired one shot since he'd never fired it with the correct ammo.

I then put half of the front sight above the rear sight. Fired and I hit about 4 - 4.5" high and about 2" left. So, I was getting somewhere. I readjusted and only put about 1/3 of the front sight above the rear sight. Put the tip of the blade on the O and squeezed the trigger. Now would you believe I planted that bullet dead center in the O at 25 yards with fixed sights? Maybe it was luck, but I think this revolver is a wonderful piece. If I'd shot a few more shots to see how it'd group, maybe it'd be more convincing.

(Click picture to view full size.)

[papabear]

juniustaylor,

The serial number would tell what it is, if you would post the SN leaving off the last 2-3 numbers I can probably tell you what it is, also a pic would help too. The S&W Ctg is the old 38/200 ie. 38 short round, so most likely its a Victory model with a 5" bbl, if so then its a Victory model, some of these Lead Lease Victories didn't have the British marking, some of them went to Austraila and South Africa, I have one that has no markings, some of these never made it overseas, anyway the the SN will the story.


Papa

[juniustaylor]

I had posted this on TheHighRoad.org under the Revolver DOB section.

These are the specs:
a) .38 S&W Ctg.
b) 5" Bbl
c) Square butt.
d) 6-shot
e) Fixed sights.
f) 908XXX
g) No model number on crane.

This one did have a cylinder that some knucklehead had modified years ago... common practice. I bought a .38 S&W cylinder from Numrich to convert it back to its former glory. Cylinder dropped in and required no fitting / timing... I was pleased. By my guess, I figured it should be around 1938 - 1940. Butt swivel had been removed and a 1/4" bolt jammed and ground off in its place. I removed this "plug" and installed a butt swivel. It is an accurate, excellent shooter.

Picture:


What the member said that would tell what it was:
juniustaylor:
You have a .38/200 British Service Revolver. The Magna grips aren't correct per the Standard Catalog of S&W, but at that point in time I'm pretty sure Britain was willing to take anything, having lost much of their armies equipment at the evacuation of Dunkirk, so they may be original to the gun. If you remove the grips there may be a serial number on the underside.

The British purchased just over 110,000 guns from S&W starting around serial number 760,000 in 1940. By 1942 the serial range had hit 1000000 and started over again at V1. with the USA providing some 568,000 guns under lend lease.

So your gun dates to the period 1940 to 1942.

It's nice to see an old gun restored to working order, instead of being treated as bubbaed junk.

[juniustaylor]

My reply back to the feller was:
Thanks for the info Radagast. The grips that had come on this gun were some artificial stag antler grips. I thought they were ugly. I bought a set of grips for the K-frame revolvers, but they were a tad too small on the forward side, the frame stuck out. So, I found this set at a gunshow. I like this style much better than the ugly ones that came on the Victory revolvers, the plain walnut ones. Again, thanks for the information. I really figured it was one of the .38/200's. This one just didn't have any British proof marks nor anything that said US Property.

This was back around the middle of June when that feller told me what it was. However, any other info is always of value. Thanks papabear.

[papabear]

juniustaylor,

It might well be a model 11, by not having the British marking, they dated from 1938-1945 and have been observed with and without British proof marks; the grips are not correct for you gun as you know, they are K frame Magna's probably post '66, but as you mentioned you replaced the smooth walnut grips, nice grips though; FYI, if the smooth walnut grips are in decent condition they are worth a few bucks. The "V" probably went missing when whoever took of the swivel off and plugged the hole and when the buffed it down they took off the "V", thats to bad also but by replacing the cylinder you have a nice shooter in 38/200.

I have a LL Victory with no marking, SN is V 91996 and in the '38-'45 range, its more likely in the '38-'40 with the 5 digit SN range with the W.B. inspector mark, and part the expectance mark flaming bomb. Its really hard to tell for yours or mine because they manufactured them again in '47 - '65, but more likely they are in the '40's. In '42 after they got to 1,000,000 they started all over with V1 in late '42, my grips are wrong also but are hard to find for collectors somewhat, they are dated 1920- 1929 and belong to a model 1905 4th Change 38 special.

[juniustaylor]

Thanks for the info papabear. I had read about the Model 11 and had considered it to be an option if it's really not a regular Pre-Mod 10 .38/200.

I don't have the slick Victory grips, this gun had plastic stag antler looking grips and I didn't like them. I originally purchased some K-frame Magna grips that looked like the ones on the gun, but they did not fit properly. Part of the front of the frame stuck out as they were a bit too small. I found the pair that is on the gun at a gunshow and they fit perfect, no protrusion of the frame.

I'm pretty sure mine did not have a V. Whoever put the plug in did a decent job actually and didn't grind away any at the butt of the frame. The original cylinder didn't have a V on it either. I thought that I read that the first series of these were without the V, and then after some victory over the axis powers, they started to put the V prefix. I don't know if that holds any water, just something I read. If that were true, then mine would have been part of the first set before the V prefix.

Thanks again papabear and that's a nice pistol you have in that picture.

[Autosurgeon]

That is a beauty! Any wartime gun is extra special IMOP just BC of the history involved!

[papabear]

Thanks autosurgeon

[daven]

If memory serves me correctly, the "Non-V" markings were up through around the end of 1941, followed by V up to 1000000? After a death in the USN in late 1944 due to a loaded "V" being dropped and going off, a safety block (hammer block) was hurriedly made and inserted with an "S" being added to the serial. Some I think were SV meaning converted by refit, the rest were VS which was designed in from the beginning. After the war, S was used. These can be in 38 S&W (usually with a 5" barrel) and in 0.38 Special (2" and 4" barrels).

In the late 1940s to early 1950s there were superb conversions made in the UK by Cogswell and Harrison where the 38 S&W cylinder was sleeved to fit 0.38 Specials, and the barrel cut to 4" with a silver-soldered ramp front sight about 2.5 inches long, often with a Parker-Hale marking on it, but the muzzle was not crowned. These are in contrast to the one described above where the cylinder was simply bored through. In such a case, the bore was too large a diameter for the 0.38 special and usually the case would split on firing.

I have one of the sleeved variety that I had crowned. It sits in my "run bag" in case of fire etc., in the house, and is still under Minute of Man at 10 yds. These were reproofed in the UK with the 4 tons per square inch marking, rather than the 3.5 tons per square inch proof for the 0.38 Special. Daven