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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 8th, 2011, 1:26 pm
by sixgun
The 9x18 is a proven round especially at close range. I like my p-64, it's a larger more powerful round than James Bonds Walther ppk and just as accurate. The most bang for the buck. Kinda think of Bond when I wear my shoulder rig. As JJ would say, It's dy-na-mite, in a small package.
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 10th, 2011, 6:44 pm
by Legally Armed
The soviets weren't stupid. If 9x18 didn't work, they wouldn't have standardized on it. Simple as that.
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 10th, 2011, 9:48 pm
by gwbiker
Legally Armed wrote:The soviets weren't stupid. If 9x18 didn't work, they wouldn't have standardized on it. Simple as that.
Right.......they simply would have copied someone else's design....
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 27th, 2011, 5:19 pm
by Legally Armed
gwbiker wrote:
Right.......they simply would have copied someone else's design....
Not quite sure what this is in reference to.. the p-64 itself maybe? Except that's not a russian design. The makarov IS a russian design, and can't really be called a copy of anything. The 9x18 is likewise a soviet round, not copied from anything.
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 29th, 2011, 3:32 am
by gwbiker
Legally Armed wrote:gwbiker wrote:
Right.......they simply would have copied someone else's design....
Not quite sure what this is in reference to.. the p-64 itself maybe? Except that's not a russian design. The makarov IS a russian design, and can't really be called a copy of anything. The 9x18 is likewise a soviet round, not copied from anything.
The Soviet 9x18 cartridge was a copy of the German 9mm Ultra..... read here:
The 9×18mm round was designed by B.V. Semin in 1951, and was intended to be the most powerful round that could function safely in a direct blowback pistol. It was based on the 9mm Ultra cartridge which was developed by Germany toward the end of WWII, as a more powerful alternative to the 9×17mm used in the Walther PP, also a blowback design. Nikolai Makarov went on to design the Makarov PM pistol around the 9×18mm round in 1948.
I stand by my statement the Soviets copy other designs. The P64 is another example.
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 29th, 2011, 7:51 pm
by sixgun
They copied it because it was good. Not only did they just copy it, they made it better. The 9x18 is a excellent round for close range. Don't want to be shot by one.
Real close to a 9mm 9x19. At close range, which is what pistols are designed for, the perp wouldn't know the difference especially on a double tap or mozambique....
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 29th, 2011, 11:03 pm
by Hinermad
Mozambique? I'm not familiar with that term. (Not as it applies to shooting, anyway.)
Dave
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 29th, 2011, 11:28 pm
by juniustaylor
Hinermad:
Mozambique Drill (2 to the chest, 1 to the head)
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 30th, 2011, 8:52 am
by lklawson
sixgun wrote:They copied it because it was good. Not only did they just copy it, they made it better.
I think of it as a family. Most of the Makarov caliber pistols have a family resemblance. If you can field strip one, you can field strip them all.
The 9x18 is a excellent round for close range. Don't want to be shot by one.
Real close to a 9mm 9x19.
The Makarov caliber bridges the .380ACP and the 9mm Parabellum.
From "Jonnin" on the KTOG forum:
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/bcompare.cgi to compare the ammo.
9x18 standard loads are equal to 380 defense loads. 9x18 defense loads are very close to 9x19 (standard 9mm) target loads.
The chart from the site gives averages:
type vel nrg grains
1. .380 Auto (9mm Kurtz) 890 183 105
2. 9 x 18 Makarov 995 216 98
3. 9mm Luger (Parabellum) 1145 346 121
with the weakest 9mm energy being about 290 and the strongest mak being 275. The strongest 380 is almost 200 and the second weakest mak is 175. (I do not believe the 75 energy mak entry is correct, maybe its a safety slug or something really odd).
The internet mak reloading data that I encounterd suggested that the SAAMI data for the mak is lowball because some of the FEG pistols cannot handle much more pressure safely. Better maks (east german, etc) can handle loads very close to standard 9mm. I cannot vouch for this and have not tried to make a stouter loading. Proceed with caution!
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 30th, 2011, 9:55 am
by sixgun
These new Hornady Critical Defence rounds mushroom making the wound channel like a .45 cal. The regular Silver Bear isn't bad either as a potent round.
That being said, I feel that my P-64 would stop a BG from taking my life in most cases.
During the cooler months I carry my .45 and have the P-64 as a backup...
Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.
Posted: August 30th, 2011, 8:10 pm
by Hinermad
juniustaylor wrote:Hinermad:
Mozambique Drill (2 to the chest, 1 to the head)
Ah, thanks. I'd heard of the technique but I didn't know there was a name for it.
Dave