spring ID

turbocat · Post by **turbocat** » April 14th, 2007, 11:32 am

hi fellas, just received a shipment of wolf ammo. just for grins..ordered 100gr, billing with shipment said 109gr, and received 95gr. back to questions: 1- i bought my p-64 over internet, and realized that the trigger pull was really nice...d.a 9.3# and s.a. 3.2#. how can i determine if the springs have been replaced? 2- are the primers on wolf military classic harder than silver bear?
until recently, i've never shot anything except wolf in my mak with complete reliability. the wolf was back-ordered for 4 months so i ordered 1000 rds of silver bear 94gr. this is the ammo i had when i bought the p-64. both pistols went thru 200 rds without a hiccup, but then i had about 6 failures to fire in the next 200 rds. both pistols showed normal strike depth. all fired on second try, so i chalked it up to the ammo .
enter wolf...mak has had no mis-fires......p-64 has had as many as 4 strikes on one round with 3 strikes normal. the round with 4 strikes was beaten up pretty good.
help if you can

Post by **normsutton** » April 14th, 2007, 11:57 am

turbocat

if you have a really nice trigger pull on your P-64 then the hammer spring has been re placed

I DON'T SHOOT WOLF AMMO IN ANYTHING I OWN

NORM

garry · Post by **garry** » April 14th, 2007, 3:17 pm

Sounds like it to me too! there are pics of replacement springs somewhere in the "Mods/Repairs" section of this site. perhaps you can check the ends of the springs looking for deformities that might indicate "other than factory" configuration. (bad cut or just different quality springs, rough ends.) Both ammo types are russian i think and i have heard that russian ammo has harder metal on the primers than American Ammo. As for 4 hits to get the primer to fire= their is a procedure for allowing a certain time limit for leaving the weapon in a safe position and waiting for a Delayed ignition . So be Careful when handling ammo that failed to fire immediately, because it can go off suddenly without warning.
do you have any trouble with the magazine falling out after the last shot? Others here have alot of experience with spring weights (both good and bad) and alot of knowledge can be gleaned from their trials. I remember seeing several Spring sets for sale on this site and it might be good to just buy a new inexpensive set and install them. starting "fresh" .
i think the trigger pull in SA is 6 lbs. factory . but you can find that in the free online manual here to see for sure. there is a spring installation tutorial here on the site from NormSutton.
also after shooting the first hundred or so it might be good to clean the bore and action of all the debris that can gum the works up. . Some do it more often/some less, but those who don't at all are prone to malfunctions eventually. Good Luck and post here again and let us know what you find by comparing pictures of the springs with yours . G

steve98664 · Post by **steve98664** » April 14th, 2007, 9:22 pm

The only way I can tell the difference in springs is that the radom factory recoil spring has flattened ends on the springs. The spring material on aftermarket Wolff springs, on the ends, is unfinished and the round wire extends to the end of the spring/wire tip.

The hammer spring may be aftermarket which is more likely your issue. Did you buy it from a online store like AIM or SOG? If you got it from a private party and the DA pull is light, odds are it is a new hammer spring. I cannot ID an original vice a newer hammer spring. If it was cut, look for a cut end on the hammer spring, but thats the only ID advice I can think of.

You can get a new hammer spring from Wolff springs for cheap.

If the pistol came from SOG, AIM or another more official dealer, it could be that you need to clean things up still inside the pistol with degreasers, etc since the pistol will look clean, but cosmoline and other contaminants could be in the firing pin channel or other key areas.

Sounds kind like its the spring though to me. I'm sure you'll get lots of advice here!

http://www.gunsprings.com/Resources/NewProductsNF.html

I have the 18# spring and I kinda wish it was a bit lighter. I may put the offbrand Walther back in. I like having a spring thats made for the pistol I might go for the 17# next time I order from Wolff.

saands · Post by **saands** » April 17th, 2007, 1:22 pm

If the spring is cut, then someone did the spring mod on the cheap ... I've seen some FFLs do this to get a P64 to sell ... as they didn't sell well with the standard DA pull. If the ends of the springs are NOT cut, then the lengths and colors will be different. Search my posts on springs and you will see a photo somewhere with images of all the different options. There may be a different number of coils as well ... worth looking at the pics. Sorry I can't point you directly to the post ... there aren't THAT many, though!

Saands

turbocat · Post by **turbocat** » April 17th, 2007, 9:13 pm

thanks for the response fellas. i finally got around to comparing the hammer spring i have to photos on this board. my spring has 27 coils where the original has 17. however my spring has finished ends. it is certainly an after-market item. this pistol has had several mods done to the sights, so the spring doesn't surprise me. i love the mods tho. ;D
as to the mag falling out after firing...it hasn't.
i want this pistol to be as reliable as my mak , and i believe it can be. this thing slips into my back pocket so easily it's an ideal ccw for my needs.
the suggestion to buy wolff springs and start fresh is the way to go.
any suggestions on poundage.......hammer and recoil?

garry · Post by **garry** » April 18th, 2007, 4:26 am

Hello Turbocat ! i think you can find a plethora of opinions on which # spring to in the "mods, repairs" section in some of the Nov./Dec.'06 threads. When i first came to this site , i saw many discussions and preferences for which spring to get and some very detailed analysis of the effects. Some of the P-64 members have really researched this subject in depth. Also i think if you look in the "buy ,sell,trade" section , you can find some 3 spring sets with varying spring weights to try. Norm Sutton made springs and i think he might still be doing this.
I personally like the stock configuration along with many others on this site , but i also think the "modifiers" make some very good and valid arguments for changing them. I don't carry, so i am just happy with it as is.
--it does sound like yours is modified, but if you try shooting it alot you may find it to be fine as is . Good luck and make sure to go over to those other sections and search around in some older threads and you will find comparisons on springs !!! G

saands · Post by **saands** » April 20th, 2007, 9:06 am

For a serious use firearm, I would replace both springs with something that you know to be good ... even if it shoots well as is. My reasoning is that you just don't know how the parts got there and if they were made by someone that understood the design. I think that most would agree that one of the upgraded recoil springs is a good idea (whether it is the 20# or the 22# is mixed). As for the mainspring, I think Garry nailed it ... there are solid arguments to go stock and solid arguments to go with a replacement ... I am currently recommending the 20# replacement mainspring as a good compromise between horrible DA and good reliability ... but read through the posts and make an informed decision. Keep in mind that Wolff JUST started making springs for the P64 a month or so ago, so the earlier posts on mainsprings refer to Walther PP springs (and THEIR ratings) so don't get confused by the numbers.

Saands

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