My response to P-64 snobs

mongo · Post by **mongo** » December 16th, 2005, 7:21 pm

Works for me...

I carry a USP, Mak, and a CZ-52 depending on enviroment and intended targets.

I really like this gun..

Fawk em..

;D

mikethewreck · Post by **mikethewreck** » December 16th, 2005, 7:28 pm

Haven't met any yet.

mongo · Post by **mongo** » December 16th, 2005, 8:00 pm

I did.. I had it out at the range and some guy asked me about it.. I said it was Polish and chambered in Mak 9mm.

He just kinda sneered.

Course he wanted to talk about my USP....

xelloss · Post by **xelloss** » December 16th, 2005, 10:30 pm

There seems to be a lot of Makarov owners who sneer down at the P-64s... Not sure why... I own and enjoy both, but I carry the P-64 (easier to conceal and still hella accurate) as a partner to my bodyguard-framed Taurus snubby .357 magnum... Oh well, more for us, right guys??? ;D ;D ;D

amd6547 · Post by **amd6547** » December 16th, 2005, 11:18 pm

After many post wars with the makarov snobs on gunboards, I have found one come back that shuts them up--"yes, the Makarov is a fine pistol--but the CZ82 blows it away!"

garrybuck · Post by **garrybuck** » December 17th, 2005, 1:45 am

I don't know why people are that way. I've got both, I like 'em both. In fact, I shot my P64 for the first time today. The Big Mak is now my second favorite pistol! I've heard that the P64 has some nasty recoil, but I didn't think it was any worse than your typical 9mm.

abwehr · Post by **abwehr** » December 17th, 2005, 5:30 am

I have not met anyone that I know who is a "P-64 Snob". except for the Snobs on the Mak Forum. Actually, when I tell anyone about the pistol they say "you gotta what?", then I proceeed to tell them about the P-64. The Mak is a fine pistol and the P-64 is a fine pistol too, but it is so accurate and small.

I have always wondered why any country like Russia would have chosen such a small pistol as the Makarov as their military sidearm, and the P-64 is even smaller and Poland chose it as their sidearm. For Police use I can see the P-64 beimg excellent, but neither as a military pistol for combat.

xelloss · Post by **xelloss** » December 17th, 2005, 5:25 pm

abwehr, the reason the Pistolet Makarova and P-64 worked well for their respective countries is that (IMHO) both militaries operated off the Soviet infantry model, wherein the officers' jobs weren't so much leading the troops (as in the Western model), but directing them... NCOs and front-line officers are there to merely relay the orders of the higher-ups, an inflexibility in the Soviet-type military system which has cost them several times... When they're busy telling troops what to do, based on what they are told to do, it doesn't leave much room for fighting except in close-in self-defense situations where the smaller but highly reliable handgun isn't as much a liability... U.S. NCOs and Officers have always had more flexibility in how they carried out their orders, and have also always viewed the handgun in a more offensive role (witness the current attempt to return to a .45ACP handgun)... ;D ;D ;D

The handgun has also long been relagated to a role of indicating command personnel in European militaries, and esp. in the former Warsaw Pact militaries... Note that this didn't prevent the officers from carrying a rifle as well, something more common among the Motorized Infantry units of the former WP forces than in others...

-Mark

preacher · Post by **preacher** » December 18th, 2005, 2:31 am

I haven't really ran into any snobs, but I have been told they weren't real Maks. After I had ordered but before I got mine, I assumed the parts from a Russian or Bulgarian would interchange with these. Someone had pointed out that these were different and the parts were not interchangeable. They said these were good, but not real Maks.

abwehr · Post by **abwehr** » December 18th, 2005, 5:29 am

xelloss,

Thanks for the explanation of the Soviet Military System. I should have thought about that, but I was thinking more along the lines of the individual soldier, but they probably would not have had the pistol anyway. Thanks!

preacher,

I have heard the same on other Forums that the P-64 is not a REAL Makarov. I am glad it is not a REAL Makarov. I wanted something different and the P-64 "fills the bill" exactly. The only commonality the two share is the cartridge. Yes, they do look similar, reasonably close in size, similar firing mechanism, but you can say the same for the Walther PP and PPK. No one calls the Makarov a German PP, so why call the P-64 a Makarov????? They are are two seperate pistols. This is why I am so glad this Forum is here for the P-64, it is NOT A Makarov, LOL!

As Rodney Dangerfield used to say, "I just don't get any respect", is the P-64 like this? LOL!!!! At least here, and on the Mak Forum there are some knowlegeable firearms folks that post the truth about the pistol; the little P-64 does get some respect!

preacher · Post by **preacher** » December 18th, 2005, 10:24 am

It may not be a real Mak, but I still wouldn't want to be standing 5o yards downrange of the thing.

I somehow don't believe the "real" Mak enthusiast would be laughing and making fun of it at that time either. ;D

mongo · Post by **mongo** » December 18th, 2005, 11:31 am

Honestly, I have always wanted a PPK since I was a teenager and of course they were illegal for years in the US. Now I am shooting my Mak and this is the best of both worlds. A PPK style weapon with Mak power. This is my fav weapon right now and I am even picking it up more often going out the door than my HK.

I like my Bulgie Mak but I still see it as more of an investment, curio due to the diminishing stocks...

My CZ52 is a great country gun, good for coyotes and two legged varmit with hollowpoints.

But my fav is my little P64

xelloss · Post by **xelloss** » December 18th, 2005, 9:00 pm

I've fired a WWII bring-back PPK in .32 and own a CZ70 in same caliber... To me, the P-64 is a more accurate gun, although the fact that I'm fairly recoil insensitive may have something to do with this...

Sights are about the same between the CZ70 and P-64, with the P-64 having a thinner (surprisingly) grip, yet a thicker slide... The P-64s slide is also thinner than the CZ's, with grip length being about the same... The one thing about the CZ that I prefer is a disassembly button vice the pull-down triggerguard... Wish I had a PPK to do a side-by-side with, but from what I remember, the PPK's grips were a bit thinner than the CZs, and the slide was shorter too... Been a while, though...

-Mark

xelloss · Post by **xelloss** » December 18th, 2005, 9:16 pm

abwehr, yeah, under common SOVMIL practice, lower ranks weren't generally issued pistols... The AKS-74U (and Polish KA-89 Onyx) was developed to be issued to non-command personnel who would normally be issued pistols, much like the M1 Carbine was used in our military... The WP countries without these smaller rifles tended to issue AKS-74s or AKMS folding stock rifles...

-Mark

cz83 · Post by **cz83** » December 19th, 2005, 3:28 pm

I like my P-64, I am considering it as a CCW but until I get the awful DA pull corrected. it will stay in my safe for now. Yeah some peeps at the Mak Gunboard site looks down on our P-64, but thats their lost. I don't carry my Maks anyway. I carry a Beretta or a Sig or my CZ83 (all depends on my mood).

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