Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

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Kotazo
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Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Kotazo » November 9th, 2017, 1:18 pm

I could really use some help. I posted before that my P64 fires too easily. Someone replied that a reduced hammer spring could make the gun a "hair trigger" so as I had ordered a set of Wolf Springs I decided to check to see if the hammer spring was reduced. The gun was just purchased used so I have no idea what was done before.

I put in the 17 lb spring and the DA and SA seemed the same as the "original" spring. The new Wolf Springs are about 3/16" longer than what was in there, but perhaps someone cut the OEM spring to make it lighter?

Next, I tried the 20 lb Wolf Spring and the DA was much heavier than either of the two prior springs. The SA was still a hair trigger. I had noticed that the hammer strut was a little bent (about 10 degrees towards the rear of the gun) so I carefully bent it straight.

The SA trigger pull is a bit better but was still about 1 oz. This is unsafe for a carry gun as an accidental discharge is far to easy.

I bought this gun for carry purposes because of the 9x18 ballistics and the small size, but in it's present state it is too dangerous to carry AND too dangerous to sell. Does anyone have any ideas? if not, is there a skilled P64 gunsmith you can recommend?

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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by OG17 » November 9th, 2017, 7:35 pm

This is why I traded mine for a blued FEG PA63. The SA was way too light to safely carry it. I also tried the different springs to no avail. You can use it for range shooting but not as an EDC. My FEG SMC-918 (same as the FEG R-61 but blued) and Radom P83 have safer SA triggers than my P64 did.

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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Kotazo » November 9th, 2017, 8:12 pm

That sucks. I sincerely hope that I can get this fixed as I hate to waste money on a useless gun.

If this is the nature of the gun, why doesn’t anyone on this site warn people?

In good conscience, I can’t even sell this thing because it’s too dangerous. Even shooting targets the gun fires right after the first recoil.

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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by OG17 » November 9th, 2017, 8:28 pm

I think there are some that the SA is fine and others that are light. My friend Ketchman told me that Radom had three different hammers that were modified and thinks that there was a possibility that the sear angles were also modified making the SA trigger lighter each time. We got the latter, so there is no real consistency with that issue. You can go to a gun show and trade it and let the person dry fire it before doing the deal. I would put it back to stock and call it a day. The SMC-918/R61 are good guns in about the same size.
Last edited by OG17 on November 12th, 2017, 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Curly1
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Curly1 » November 10th, 2017, 3:01 pm

+1 Put the stock springs back in and sell it.
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Kotazo » November 10th, 2017, 3:32 pm

I guess I must have bought this gun from someone with the same attitude.

I will not sell something I know to be unsafe.

Ketchman
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Ketchman » November 11th, 2017, 1:35 am

ok, if you let someone dry fire the gun before selling it, take snap caps with you, and THEY deem it acceptable then you are not selling them a gun with a feature they are unaware of. And I will NOT buy a sidearm that I cannot test the trigger on. Gander Mountain was a major retailer that had lost my business for that very reason. If you tell them that the trigger pull is lighter than you like and let them test the trigger then you have done you due diligence and can have a clear conscience. By the way, have you thought about having a gunsmith look at the gun? If the hammer strut was bent what else may be wrong that if fixed may return the gun to stock configuration.

And this was found on an earlier post:

P-64 Variations
Post by abwehr » March 5th, 2006, 2:52 pm

The following information was provided to the Forum by a member in Poland, "Bartos"! Bartos has been a very valuable member in making previously unknow information about the P-64 available to us. He is also a member of the Polish Military in an Airborn Division. The information about the Variations are as follows:

First variations was made from 1964 to 1971 it has round hammer
Second variations was made from 1971 to 1973 it has modified hammer(but still round) and trigger bar( changes are only seen when do you compare two types of parts )
From 1972 this version has "A" stamp on the left side of pistol.
Third variations was made from 1973 to 1977 when the last one was produced . It has triangle hammer.

There was one more variation - In 1967 were made a few for 9mm short. In Poland are known two pistols in this caliber at the moment. I think that the rest were destroyed like many others weapon in Poland
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Kotazo
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Kotazo » November 11th, 2017, 11:59 am

I do want to take it to a gunsmith, but I’m wondering if the P64 requires special knowledge?

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Curly1
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Curly1 » November 11th, 2017, 12:35 pm

Ketch Gander mountain here let me dry fire a p64 they had.

But yea selling FTF you can try out the trigger pull or if sold online give the info on the trigger pull and let the buyer make their own decision.

Or part it out you can easily sell some of the harder parts to find like the decocker/safety
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Ketchman » November 11th, 2017, 10:09 pm

The P64 does not take special knowledge. If your gunsmith is good he will be able to find information he needs if he cannot find what is wrong. Otherwise take it to a different 'smith.
And Curly did the guy behind the counter know you personally 'cause I was told that company policy forbade them from removing the trigger locks until the gun was sold. And that was when I told them they had lost a customer.
Inspiration: The momentary cessation of stupidity.

"As in all life, the odds are 6 to 5 against"--- Ketchman

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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Kotazo » November 12th, 2017, 11:43 am

Thanks Ketchman, I have a little more disassembly and cleaning to do, then I will take it in to someone. I was really hoping that someone on this forum had some technical ideas on how to do the repairs but even posting specific questions like stiffening the sear spring has gotten no reply.
I'm someone who repairs most anything and has built not only my house but everything from video equipment to fine woodworking. I have developed self-sufficiency to an art form which stems from my time in the 70s living in Central Africa jury-rigging equipment at hospitals and doing all the repairs on the MAS 1936 rifles we used on anti-poaching raids in a game park. I still want to figure out how to repair this gun as such knowledge will count for much in the troubled times to come.
What I really desire is a source of technical information where I can seek ideas and possible solutions. I was hoping that this forum was such a place, but perhaps I'm not in the right place? As always, ideas are appreciated.

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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Ketchman » November 12th, 2017, 12:26 pm

I still think the issue is the hammer. Check the sear engagement notches and see if they are damamged or if the edges are nice and square and sharp. Also check the trigger return spring and see if it is working properly. Otherwise, find a smith who can diagnose a possible problem. The other problem is that you are riding the trigger while shooting and keeping enough contact and pressure on the trigger during the firing cycle to cause a second round to be fired too quickly. With the large change in trigger pressure needed to get sear let off between DA and SA modes it is very easy to do this especially if your used to working with a polymer combat pistol such as a Glock with that style trigger. That is something that may be happening. If you check through the forum you will find others such as my friend OG17 who also found the SA too light. And I think it has a lot to do with what version hammer you have. Perhaps your smith can come up with a reweld and recut of the sear engagement slots however if your going to carry this weapon for personal defense I would highly recommend against that. Mods to the firing mechanism design are frowned upon by bloodthirsty prosocutors in the event of a serious social encounter.
Inspiration: The momentary cessation of stupidity.

"As in all life, the odds are 6 to 5 against"--- Ketchman

"The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there."
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Curly1
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Curly1 » November 12th, 2017, 2:01 pm

Ketch no I didn't know him, this was a 3 or 4 years ago.
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Ketchman » November 12th, 2017, 8:42 pm

Hmmm. Well my occurance was 12-13 years ago so maybe they changed policy sometime after my issue. And since they are now kaput it no longer matters. :D
Inspiration: The momentary cessation of stupidity.

"As in all life, the odds are 6 to 5 against"--- Ketchman

"The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there."
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Kotazo
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Re: Please Help -- 1 oz SA trigger pull

Post by Kotazo » November 12th, 2017, 10:59 pm

Ketchman, I played with the trigger let off some more just before reading your last post. I think the problem is that the "let off" after firing is about the same place as the release point. In other words, when firing and releasing the trigger the point where the sear is once again engaged is about where the pull on the trigger releases the hammer. Even though I am releasing the trigger after firing the recoil movement is enough (and the travel between reset and fire short enough) that the second round is let off unintentionally.
I have a Glock (which is a POS) and usually use a Beretta PX4 40 or a Bersa 380 for carry. I have owned and used many semi autos of various manufactures and have never had a problem with the trigger let off with any of them. I am beginning to suspect that the light pull (so light my finger doesn't even feel the weight) and the reset/fire being in the same place is the problem. I will continue to disassemble the hammer and the sear when I return in a few days.
Rather than taking the liability risk of a re-weld or other modification to the hammer, I will likely see if I can purchase a new hammer.
If this doesn't work and if a gunsmith can't find a non design problem, I will sell the parts and get another Baikal Makarov which is what I stupidly got rid of. I only bought the P64 because I loved the Baikal and thought it would be a good replacement as it uses the 9x18 but is the same size as the Bersa.
I worked quite a lot in Russia in the early days and also in Poland. Because Poland was in such better shape than Russia in the early 90s I figured their guns would also be superior. Bad assumption it turns out.

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