Defensive Ammo

eaglepath · Post by **eaglepath** » November 24th, 2006, 4:10 am

The only ammo in this area by local gunshop is one that I am not familiar with. I will be going down and picking up a box of 50 this weekend. Is any one out there acquainted with American Eagle 95 Gr. FMJ rounds and how well they work in a P-64??

abwehr · Post by **abwehr** » November 24th, 2006, 7:34 am

I will put my .02 cents worth on this, and that is what it is worth, LOL.

I have never been impressed with the American Eagle ammo. Some folks find it works great in their pistols and swear by it. If the price is right, try a box and if it is reliable, go for it, reliability is important.

As to defensive ammo, I am a proponent of the PowR Ball ammo, from CorBon I think. They finally got the 9mm Mak round available in my area. It feeds and fires fine in my pistol/s. Cost is on the high side, but I am not going to plink with it, just use as defensive ammo.

Edit - OK, I was looking for the prices on PowR Ball ammo and found this site that sells a box of 20 rds for $12.95. This is the best price I have seen so far. My local shop sells it for approx. $16 a box. The link is: http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog/index ... 18bf974345

amd6547 · Post by **amd6547** » November 25th, 2006, 10:16 pm

Sorry, I refuse to buy wonder bullets in boxes of 20.
I am perfectly satisfied with the silver bear JHP's or even ball for my P64 for CCW use. I like to shoot alot of the ammo I will carry for self defence.

oneshot · Post by **oneshot** » November 26th, 2006, 12:32 pm

Those wonder bullets either Hornady or PowRBall will do far more damage than the silver bear JHP !
It better be a head shot if you are depending on silver bear JHP or FMJ.
I would not trust the Glaser safety to defend my life.
PowRBall 1300 fps 263ft/lbs at 70gr it shatters, not like a Glaser more like a mangled mass ! one should do, three quick hits and "you" are alive.

amd6547 · Post by **amd6547** » November 26th, 2006, 2:49 pm

I don't want "shatter", I want penetration. I want a bullet that will enter through one shoulder, hole both lungs, and continue out the other shoulder. I want a bullet that will go in the front of the chest, and out the back. These are the performance attributes I want when using the 9mm makarov for sef defence. Move me up to 9mm parabellum, and it will be a JHP. Move up to 45, and it will probably be ball.
As for silver bear JHP's, I have not personally done any tests other than shooting targets, but I have seen some tests performed where they performed similarly to Hornady.

beasleydano · Post by **beasleydano** » November 26th, 2006, 3:05 pm

I am going to have to try those wonder bullets some time just to see what the fuss is all about. I like the Silver Bear 94 gr JHP myself because it is an inexpensive round as well as being both a good practice and self defense round. I have always felt that mindset and skill are the crucial factors in any self defense situation and that bullet placement is more important than caliber, muzzle velocity, expansion, etc. I feel that it is best to practice a lot with what you will carry for protection and would not feel outgunned by a street thug with a .44 Magnum.

nbender · Post by **nbender** » November 26th, 2006, 3:45 pm

I once did some 9x18 penetration tests using a Makarov and soaked newspaper. Someday when the snow melts I'd like to do some more testing with my P-64, the newest ammo, and a different test medium. There is some info to be gleaned from what I tried back then, but there weren't many pertinent replies. Nobody agrees on penetration test methods or results.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.a ... _ID=163252

beasleydano · Post by **beasleydano** » November 26th, 2006, 4:19 pm

This is an interesting topic. If a particular type or brand of ammo is far superior to another and the price is not outrageous I want to know. Firing into gelatin, wood or watermelons may yield varying results. The results of firing into human beings may yield totally different results. The only testing in this respect that I know of was unintententional- as a result of statistical data collected as a result of crime and war. For the military hardball is the thing. It feeds better, it penetrates, it may not always kill on impact but is likely to put up to 3-4 enemy combatants out of action for awhile (one injured, two carrying the injured on a stretcher and possibly another- a medic). For law enforcement and self defense good hollow points are probably the way to go, so long as their is adequate expansion. FMJ may penetrate flesh more than shock the system and may not immediately stop the gunfight. Also there could be hazards of injury to bystanders due to overpenetration with more powerful calibers. As far as 9x18 goes, FMJ was good enough for the military and police and is still viable but JHP may be a bit better for law enforcement and self defense purposes. If the wonder rounds are far superior to normal JHP I want to know!

oneshot · Post by **oneshot** » November 26th, 2006, 10:00 pm

nbender great pictures. The silver bear's JHP I tested did not expand. The only one that did was into hard Texas clay, what some call dirt. What distance did you fire these from? The powrball was intact, I never fired them into dirt.

amd6547: shatter might have been the wrong word, my bad. I had edited it and this is what I saw "not like a Glaser more like a mangled mass" I meant to take shattered out when I edited it.

My test !?

let's just say I don't care for beef and 40$ for a couple of big briskets cut up and stacked and packed with a couple of layers of old jackets......

I would bet my life on it that a powrball will penetrate enough and then some, or maybe I am just confident in my point and shoot abilities.

nbender · Post by **nbender** » November 26th, 2006, 10:28 pm

I was shooting point-blank, usually within 5-feet.

beasleydano · Post by **beasleydano** » November 26th, 2006, 10:43 pm

nbender

Thanks for the time spent on the tests and sharing the info with us. This is good info. Good topic, too, guys. I would like to hear from other members about what brands and types of ammo they feed their P-64s. I shoot Maks and a PA63 as well as the P64s and like to use the same ammo in all of them. It's just so much cheaper and easier to order 1000 rounds of one brand/type.

oneshot · Post by **oneshot** » November 28th, 2006, 12:07 pm

nbender I was at 6 feet. except into the clay approx 3 feet.

The silver bear JHP's looked like the brown bears that didn't expand in your tests. I just looked at a bunch of the silver bear JHP's I have and there seems to be a major difference in everything from the lead core to the "jacket slices if that's what they are called". I must have a bad batch !
Has anyone else noticed this on theirs ?

wolf357 · Post by **wolf357** » November 28th, 2006, 1:11 pm

While at the range this morning, I tested the Hornady HP ammo for expansion, accuracy, and reliability. The first two tests proved satisfactory to me. But I did experience one F-to-Feed, which concerned me somewhat, so I fired seven more rnds. and they functioned smoothly.

I also tested the older Barnaul FMJ ammo, along with the Hungarian MFS FMJ ammo with positive results.

The P-64 is a surprisingly accurate pistol out to 15 yards. But beyond this range my groups really opened up. This, of course, is no complaint from me. If I want accuracy at 25 yards and beyond, I use one of my 6" Ruger SS .357 Magnum revolvers.

For a pocket protector, I really like the P-64.

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