robalan wrote:I think there does need to be concern for anyone in the area. The JHP seems like the better choice most of the time. I learned the key words in court are, I feared for my life and I shot to stop them.
Definition of Court.....a place where a bunch of people will take weeks, if not months, to try and figure out what happened in seconds in real time.
That won't work in Civil Court either. Why didn't you just run away if you were in such fear?
"The next American Civil War has begun." - Really? And who's fighting who? And how do you know who in your neighborhood is your friend or foe?
And if somebody really thinks that this is a reason to start a civil war than USA is definitely a home to some stupid, crazy and very scared people. May God help them!
mvelimir wrote:"The next American Civil War has begun." - Really? And who's fighting who? And how do you know who in your neighborhood is your friend or foe?
And if somebody really thinks that this is a reason to start a civil war than USA is definitely a home to some stupid, crazy and very scared people. May God help them!
Socialism is Fighting our Constitution and America is already home to some Stupid and Crazy People Indeed. They put the biggest mistake in the history of this country in the White House. As an Oath Taker, I am sickened by the Liberal Liars
boomer wrote:Now for another dose of reality. Is the Bad Guy going to be concerned about over penitration? Is the Bad Guy going to be concerned about colateral damage?
We have won several wars with round nose bullets and are not doing to badly in the present one with round nose FMJ bullets. We have had police shooting round nose and FMJ bullets for over 100 years now. How many innocent people have been killed or struck by an over penitration stay bullet that you know of?
The handgun is a deadly weapon designed to kill. No you don't shoot at a guy stealing your car or a guy screaming in your face either. You only shoot when you are in fear of your life and/or serous bodily injury and you are still going to get arrested, sued and indicted. Been there done that, even bought the T Shirt.
While I have never been in a self defense shooting, I'm not unaware of what is involved. I've studied the use of lethal force for over two decades. I know the criminals don't worry about rules or the safety of others. I also have no illusions as the consequences of using lethal force no matter how justified it is. I am not eager to shoot someone, but I will not go quietly into that goodnight if I have a chance to prevent it.
This seems like a good read. I haven't got to read it all, but it has a good deal of knowledge. Pages 11-12 have information regarding "Ammunition Selection Criteria". They do suggest that a bullet that will over-penetrate is better than not enough.
For some folks this may not be new information, but for others, it's some information to study. For the most part I feel this topic seems to be like kicking a dead horse. The same comments go 'round and 'round. Anyway, I hope that the OP has got some answers that he was looking for.
It is nothing like the real thing. You can read all the documentation you can find but it won't tell the real story. The yelling and screaming. There is blood everywhere. The vomiting and discharge of body fluids and contents. Do you think the bad guy just falls over queitly after you shoot him?
Until you shoot another human being you will never know what it is really looks and smells like and how you will feel.
boomer wrote:It is nothing like the real thing. You can read all the documentation you can find but it won't tell the real story. The yelling and screaming. There is blood everywhere. The vomiting and discharge of body fluids and contents. Do you think the bad guy just falls over queitly after you shoot him?
Until you shoot another human being you will never know what it is really looks and smells like and how you will feel.
stover wrote:Today loaded with JHP 6 +1, FMJ Spare mag and 22 mag Black Widow BUG. Tomorrow ya just never know.
That sound like a good plan. Looks like you are ready for that first close encounter. If the action is prolonged and/or moves out, possible under cover, load up with FMJ. In case of gun failure, bite them with the Black Widow.
In 1963 the United States trained me to be a very lethal and professional killer of human beings for them in South East Asia. I was very good at it and the proof of that is the fact that I am still here. Bullets can kill no matter what size. In fact, smaller bullets kill faster.
I then spent 25 years enfocing the laws of the land of this country and had to use deadly force on a few occasions. My experiences have been a very dramatic and ugly lesson for me.
I have no acceptance of some magazine writer or internet expert until he has as many kills by orders and for self defence. Then and only then can they give any correct information. They can only speculate and assume. That can get you killed.
boomer wrote:In 1963 the United States trained me to be a very lethal and professional killer of human beings for them in South East Asia. I was very good at it and the proof of that is the fact that I am still here. Bullets can kill no matter what size. In fact, smaller bullets kill faster.
I then spent 25 years enfocing the laws of the land of this country and had to use deadly force on a few occasions. My experiences have been a very dramatic and ugly lesson for me.
I have no acceptance of some magazine writer or internet expert until he has as many kills by orders and for self defence. Then and only then can they give any correct information. They can only speculate and assume. That can get you killed.
That is why I try to study only the shootings themselves and the legal results thereafter. Let me be clear in saying I was in no way comparing my knowledge to your experirnce. I am saying I'm not someone who buys a gun, rarely shoots it, yet thinks I'm some invulnerable Rambo type whom the cops will pat on the back for "wasting a scumbag." From what I've seen and read, gunfights tend to be brief, terryfying, messy (as you stated), unbpredictable, and NOTHING like what Hollywood portrays. The police aren't there to say what a good job I did. They are there to determine whether a crime was committed and if so, by who.
I've had all of two incidents that would have resulted in a shooting had I not been aware of what was happening and been prepared. Yet I am very aware that until I've been in a shootout/shooting, I will never be 100% ready. That doesn't mean I shouldn't at least try.
Sounds to me like you have your head around it correctly and your attitude is on the right track. It should be avoided if at all possible however, if there is no other way out just make sure you are the winner. The other reason I will put the first two in the hips is because I have encountered a BG wearing a vest. The hip shots took him down, the chest shots did nothing. All of my civilian take downs have been with a .38/158 grn ball and .380/ 95 grn/ 9 mm Kurz FMJ. Don't believe that myth about you need a 45 either.
The VC would get all hyped up on drugs and the .45 slug would not stop them. Now blowing some holes right through them with a 9x18 Mak would do the trick.
The best preperation is One Handed Point and Shoot Muscle Memory practice.
Last edited by boomer on March 22nd, 2010, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
boomer wrote:In 1963 the United States trained me to be a very lethal and professional killer of human beings for them in South East Asia. I was very good at it and the proof of that is the fact that I am still here. Bullets can kill no matter what size. In fact, smaller bullets kill faster.
I then spent 25 years enfocing the laws of the land of this country and had to use deadly force on a few occasions. My experiences have been a very dramatic and ugly lesson for me.
I have no acceptance of some magazine writer or internet expert until he has as many kills by orders and for self defence. Then and only then can they give any correct information. They can only speculate and assume. That can get you killed.
That is why I try to study only the shootings themselves and the legal results thereafter. Let me be clear in saying I was in no way comparing my knowledge to your experirnce. I am saying I'm not someone who buys a gun, rarely shoots it, yet thinks I'm some invulnerable Rambo type whom the cops will pat on the back for "wasting a scumbag." From what I've seen and read, gunfights tend to be brief, terryfying, messy (as you stated), unbpredictable, and NOTHING like what Hollywood portrays. The police aren't there to say what a good job I did. They are there to determine whether a crime was committed and if so, by who.
I've had all of two incidents that would have resulted in a shooting had I not been aware of what was happening and been prepared. Yet I am very aware that until I've been in a shootout/shooting, I will never be 100% ready. That doesn't mean I shouldn't at least try.
I think some of us will support FMJ and some will support JHP and others some combination. One thing we can probably agree on is having any of these at our disposal is a great gift. May we all train well at using them and never need to use them off the range. I wish the best of luck to all of us in this endeavor.
