9x18 jhp vs. fmj

[dwd]

I wasn't laughing, I just never heard of it before

[boomer]

Try it!

[robalan]

I am not a ballistics expert of course, but it sure seems like we have a bunch of guys here overly concerned about penetration.

At this reading it was 40% FMJ to only 13% JHP.

[boomer]

I personally like over penitration. One hole in the front and one in the back. I also know how to get contol of the enemies hearts and minds. Two shots to the chest then one to the head. Worked every time for me when I tried it.

[robalan]

I personally like over penitration. One hole in the front and one in the back. I also know how to get contol of the enemies hearts and minds. Two shots to the chest then one to the head. Worked every time for me when I tried it.

I see no problem doing all that with JHP in your gun.

[boomer]

I personally like over penitration. One hole in the front and one in the back. I also know how to get contol of the enemies hearts and minds. Two shots to the chest then one to the head. Worked every time for me when I tried it.

I see no problem doing all that with JHP in your gun.

That's all I use, S&B 95 grn FMJ

[Foo Bird]

My only concern is hitting someone not involved after it passes thru the zombie. I suggest FMJ for .32 on down, but 9x18 and .380 are in a gray area. As I do most of my traveling in populated areas I have to worry about others that could be harmed.

I guess I could move the country and then I'd only have to worry about getting mugged by deer.

[boomer]

If you ever sat down and actually calulated the possibility of colateral hits it is nothing to even be concern about. All the energy that is lost on the first object hit also has to be considered.

I shoot for the hips with my first two shots then up to the chest cavity for the next two. Breaking hip bones will knock a big guy down in a hurry in my opinion. When it gets sideways to the point a gun comes out....there are no rules, only survival. There is no second place in a gun fight. It will happen in the blink of any eye and at a distance between 6 inches to 6 feet. It will only last for seconds. Don't draw unless you intend to fire, don't fire unless you intend to kill. Night sights, lasers, flashligts won't mean or do a thing for you. Point and shoot muscle memory training is what will make the difference between life and death. YOUR LIFE OR DEATH

[juniustaylor]

I think the important rule here is:
Know your target and what is beyond. - Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

Some could construe this as simply target shooting, however, these are general gun safety rules. I do believe the key concept to all of this is situational awareness. Take mental notes wherever you go. Know where means of escapes are and people that are around you. I know there are calculated possibilites but the fact is, there's always that chance you could injure someone else. It doesn't matter if it's 100%, 50%, or .00001%. There's still a chance.

I think there's still a lot of energy left after a shot with FMJ. In that article I posted earlier on here, the guy shot FMJ's through his Makarov. It went through 16" of ballistic gel, 14" of polyester, and continued another 15 yards still intact with NO deformation!!!

I would personally feel horrible if I shot 6+ times at some guy and wounded or killed somebody else that had nothing to do with the confrontation. That could have been someone's mom, dad, brother, sister, fiance, etc. Maybe I'm thinking too much into this, I just feel HP's would be more effective. They'd go in, do their damage, and more than likely not exit the body. Especially in an urban area. However, everyone has an opinion and that's good. boomer seems to have a lot of knowledge and first hand experience. If FMJ's work for him, then that's great. Everyone that takes on the responsibility of carrying a CCW should think of these things. Do the research and make a well informed decision.

[Foo Bird]

If you ever sat down and actually calulated the possibility of colateral hits it is nothing to even be concern about. All the energy that is lost on the first object hit also has to be considered.

I shoot for the hips with my first two shots then up to the chest cavity for the next two. Breaking hip bones will knock a big guy down in a hurry in my opinion. When it gets sideways to the point a gun comes out....there are no rules, only survival. There is no second place in a gun fight. It will happen in the blink of any eye and at a distance between 6 inches to 6 feet. It will only last for seconds. Don't draw unless you intend to fire, don't fire unless you intend to kill. Night sights, lasers, flashligts won't mean or do a thing for you. Point and shoot muscle memory training is what will make the difference between life and death. YOUR LIFE OR DEATH

There will be no hesitation on my part. That I know. Just trying to be prepared in advance the best I can.
Because of how litigous society is now I don't want to survive the fight and wind up financially destitute for the rest of my life. Yes it beats the alternative, but I'm trying to do better than alive but homeless. Also, don't think I don't care about innocents, that is my primary concern. My second is the consequences for overpenetration.

As for knowing what's in the backround that almost goes without saying. Just remember that most shootings occur in low light.
Sorry for the persistence, just trying to get this nailed down now so I'll have peace of mind should it come time to pull the trigger.

[boomer]

You feel horrible when you have to kill another human being, no matter what the reason. The United States Military are professional killers. That is their function to kill with force. There is no getting away from that.

When you draw your weapon you will become a KILLER or be KILLED. That's the simple of it. Don't try to sugar coat it. That is DEADLY FORCE in your holster and designed to kill. The NATO regulations dictate to use FMJ ammunition to KILL WITH. No if's no and's no but,s!

[boomer]

If you ever sat down and actually calulated the possibility of colateral hits it is nothing to even be concern about. All the energy that is lost on the first object hit also has to be considered.

I shoot for the hips with my first two shots then up to the chest cavity for the next two. Breaking hip bones will knock a big guy down in a hurry in my opinion. When it gets sideways to the point a gun comes out....there are no rules, only survival. There is no second place in a gun fight. It will happen in the blink of any eye and at a distance between 6 inches to 6 feet. It will only last for seconds. Don't draw unless you intend to fire, don't fire unless you intend to kill. Night sights, lasers, flashligts won't mean or do a thing for you. Point and shoot muscle memory training is what will make the difference between life and death. YOUR LIFE OR DEATH

There will be no hesitation on my part. That I know. Just trying to be prepared in advance the best I can.
Because of how litigous society is now I don't want to survive the fight and wind up financially destitute for the rest of my life. Yes it beats the alternative, but I'm trying to do better than alive but homeless. Also, don't think I don't care about innocents, that is my primary concern. My second is the consequences for overpenetration.

As for knowing what's in the backround that almost goes without saying. Just remember that most shootings occur in low light.
Sorry for the persistence, just trying to get this nailed down now so I'll have peace of mind should it come time to pull the trigger.

You will never have peace of mind once you pull that trigger ever again in your life. You will be legally harassed and sued. There was a fellow officer I knew who was able to dodge most of the shot from a double blast of a double barrel shot gun. He returned fire and killed the attacker. The Department regarded it as a "GOOD SHOOT" The family of the dead thug sued the cop and the city in civil court for the officer shooting an unarmed man because both barrels of his shot gun were discharged and won and were awarded 6 million dollars from the cop. Go figure!

Most of the shootings do not happen in low light either. You will never know when a gun fight is going to happen.

[Foo Bird]

Peace of mind refers to the act itself, not it's aftermath.
The low light statement was taken from federal figures that examined shootings.

[robalan]

I think there does need to be concern for anyone in the area. The JHP seems like the better choice most of the time. I learned the key words in court are, I feared for my life and I shot to stop them.

[boomer]

Now for another dose of reality. Is the Bad Guy going to be concerned about over penitration? Is the Bad Guy going to be concerned about colateral damage?

We have won several wars with round nose bullets and are not doing to badly in the present one with round nose FMJ bullets. We have had police shooting round nose and FMJ bullets for over 100 years now. How many innocent people have been killed or struck by an over penitration stay bullet that you know of?

The handgun is a deadly weapon designed to kill. No you don't shoot at a guy stealing your car or a guy screaming in your face either. You only shoot when you are in fear of your life and/or serous bodily injury and you are still going to get arrested, sued and indicted. Been there done that, even bought the T Shirt.