P83 Decoker Issue UPDATE #2

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OG17
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P83 Decoker Issue UPDATE #2

Post by OG17 » March 11th, 2017, 11:07 am

My gunsmith and I worked on the 1987 P83 decocker issue yesterday. We replaced the safety lever, detent & spring, installed a new sear and safety engagement (hammer release). Well it still doesn't decock. I have a 1989 P83 and when I put the 1987 slide on it, the decocker works perfectly. When I put the 1989 slide on the 1987 frame the decocker doesn't work correctly.

With all the new parts installed the only thing that comes to mind is that the issue is where the hammer and hammer release interface. If I understand the operation of the decocker, when the safety is pushed up it rotates and presses down on the hammer release which then moves (releases) the hammer to the decocked position. If the hammer release is not able to move the hammer, then the hammer won't decock. My thinking is that there may be a problem with the hammer specifically the area where the hammer release sits in.

Any ideas?

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Weasel640
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Re: P83 Decoker Issue UPDATE #2

Post by Weasel640 » March 11th, 2017, 1:41 pm

I think you are overthinking it here.

Let me summarize what you just said to make sure I'm understanding it then I'll throw in what I'm thinking....
Also please refer to the attached manual (linked at bottom)(google translated to English) so we can use the same words for the right parts:

1) The 87 Slide has a new Safety(13), Safety Detent(14), and Safety Detent Spring(15). 2) The 87 Frame has a new Sear(31)?, and Disconnector(34) or was it 21-24??. 3) The 87 Slide works on the 89(known good) Frame. So the problem is not in the Slide. 4) The 89(known good) Slide is not working on the 87 Frame. So the problem lays in the 87 Frame.


OK so bear with me, it's been a while since I've had my P-83 taken apart down to the individual pieces (and I don't feel like doing it now). But I have some pics from before that might be helpful.

a) In the Manual it calls the part attached to the Hammer the Sear(31) I don't think this is what you replaced as I know that it's pinned in there. So let's agree to call the entire thing (25, 27, 31-33) the Hammer Assembly, as seen in the picture (ignore red arrows in both pics). b) Also part 24 is more of a Sear in my mind. So let's call that set (21-24) the Sear Assembly, as seen in the other picture.

Now lets step back and look at how the whole thing functions in the Frame. For this I'd like you to take the Grips and Slide off, and observe the Frame function only. A) When you cock the Hammer Assembly it should engage the Sear Assembly. At the same time you should see that the Trigger Bar is engaged with the Sear Assembly. B) When you pull the Trigger you will see the Trigger Bar disengage the Sear Assembly from the Hammer Assembly. If this happens you know that both Assemblys are functioning. If it does not then we need to diagnose those two Assemblys with a follow up. C) Repeat (A), then push slightly (maybe less than a millimeter) on the Disconnector, stop when you feel a change in tension. You should see the Trigger Bar be pushed down out of where it could function with the Sear Assembly. D) Next fully push on the Disconnector past that change in tension. You should now see (C) then the Sear Assembly disengaged from the Hammer Assembly, allowing the Hammer Assembly to fall. If (C) or (D) do happen then move on, taking note of exactly the small amounts of movement that engage/disengage what parts (this will be key). If (C) or (D) do not happen then we need to diagnose how the Disconnector is functioning.

So now keep the Grips off, and put the Slide (in Fire) on. Ensure the Slide is all the way forward(in Battery). E) Repeat (A-B) and compare the function. F) Repeat (A) and now move the Slide out of Battery, you should see the parts act the way step (C) did. If not you know you have a Slide alignment problem with the Disconnector G) Put the Slide back in Battery now rotate the Safety to the safe position. You should now see the parts act the way (D) did. Again if not you know you have a Slide alignment problem with the Disconnector, specifically in regards to the Safety. H) Repeat (F) and (G) but put downward pressure on the Slide. If the function works now then you'll know that the Slide is riding to high for some reason. If it still does not function properly, the problem is centered around the Disconnector.
Attachments
Hammer Assembly.jpg
Sear Assy.jpg
P-83 Manual English.pdf
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Weasel

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OG17
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Re: P83 Decoker Issue UPDATE #2

Post by OG17 » March 11th, 2017, 4:33 pm

Weasel640 wrote:I think you are overthinking it here.

Let me summarize what you just said to make sure I'm understanding it then I'll throw in what I'm thinking....
Also please refer to the attached manual (linked at bottom)(google translated to English) so we can use the same words for the right parts:

1) The 87 Slide has a new Safety(13), Safety Detent(14), and Safety Detent Spring(15). 2) The 87 Frame has a new Sear(31)?, and Disconnector(34) or was it 21-24??. 3) The 87 Slide works on the 89(known good) Frame. So the problem is not in the Slide. 4) The 89(known good) Slide is not working on the 87 Frame. So the problem lays in the 87 Frame. YES


OK so bear with me, it's been a while since I've had my P-83 taken apart down to the individual pieces (and I don't feel like doing it now). But I have some pics from before that might be helpful.

a) In the Manual it calls the part attached to the Hammer the Sear(31) I don't think this is what you replaced as I know that it's pinned in there. So let's agree to call the entire thing (25, 27, 31-33) the Hammer Assembly, as seen in the picture (ignore red arrows in both pics). AGREED

b) Also part 24 is more of a Sear in my mind. So let's call that set (21-24) the Sear Assembly, as seen in the other picture. AGREED

Now lets step back and look at how the whole thing functions in the Frame. For this I'd like you to take the Grips and Slide off, and observe the Frame function only. A) When you cock the Hammer Assembly it should engage the Sear Assembly. At the same time you should see that the Trigger Bar is engaged with the Sear Assembly. B) When you pull the Trigger you will see the Trigger Bar disengage the Sear Assembly from the Hammer Assembly. If this happens you know that both Assemblys are functioning. If it does not then we need to diagnose those two Assemblys with a follow up. C) Repeat (A), then push slightly (maybe less than a millimeter) on the Disconnector, stop when you feel a change in tension. You should see the Trigger Bar be pushed down out of where it could function with the Sear Assembly. D) Next fully push on the Disconnector past that change in tension. You should now see (C) then the Sear Assembly disengaged from the Hammer Assembly, allowing the Hammer Assembly to fall. If (C) or (D) do happen then move on, taking note of exactly the small amounts of movement that engage/disengage what parts (this will be key). If (C) or (D) do not happen then we need to diagnose how the Disconnector is functioning.
It takes a lot of pressure to push down on the disconnector. When it does release I see the Sear Assembly diengage from the Hammer Assembly. The disconnector is a new part from Numrich.

So now keep the Grips off, and put the Slide (in Fire) on. Ensure the Slide is all the way forward(in Battery). E) Repeat (A-B) and compare the function. F) Repeat (A) and now move the Slide out of Battery, you should see the parts act the way step (C) did. If not you know you have a Slide alignment problem with the Disconnector G) Put the Slide back in Battery now rotate the Safety to the safe position. You should now see the parts act the way (D) did. Again if not you know you have a Slide alignment problem with the Disconnector, specifically in regards to the Safety. H) Repeat (F) and (G) but put downward pressure on the Slide. If the function works now then you'll know that the Slide is riding to high for some reason. If it still does not function properly, the problem is centered around the Disconnector.
It has to be a frame issue. The gun will work fine with out the slide. Once I put the slide on the decocker doesn't work. It does different things at different times. One time it's cocked & locked, another time the safety will move up but I have to pull the trigger to decock it, and some times it's cocked and the safety won't budge. I'll either have to find a new frame or just part this one out.

Thanks for the help Weasel. Much appreciated.

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