Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Discussion with questions, answers, and everything else about all other 9x18's
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chestertnted
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Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by chestertnted » October 9th, 2015, 8:37 am

Just bought my Norinco T59 Makarov, and found interesting reading in the manual that came with it. It says the gun is 9×18 Ultra. The key word being Ultra. I know of the Walther Ultra round developed for more pressure, but have never seen a 9×18 Ultra. For now assuming one of those things that occur when translating. The imprint on the gun does not say Ultra.
If anybody has some input let me know!
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Weasel640
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Re: Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by Weasel640 » October 9th, 2015, 12:36 pm

The 9x18 Ultra was made early on in the 30s and only really used by the Germans. It is NOT interchangeable with the 9X18 Makarav. As far as I know all the Chinese Type 59 Pistols were made to the same specs as the Makarav. I also don't see any good reason it would have ever been chambered it Ultra. I think you are right about it being a translation issue. I'd go off of what's stamped on the barrel next to the chamber. You should post some pics.
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Re: Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by chestertnted » October 11th, 2015, 2:14 pm

Trying to send picture of manual!
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Re: Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by SkippySanchez » October 11th, 2015, 7:18 pm

If it were me I would be very cautious. Particularly if both rounds appear to chamber ok. Hopefully you'll come across some credible information to confirm exactly what it is you have.

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Re: Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by chestertnted » October 11th, 2015, 7:36 pm

Pretty sure it is a translation oops!

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Re: Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by Weasel640 » October 12th, 2015, 12:31 am

chestertnted wrote:Pretty sure it is a translation oops!
I'd say so. How about some pics of the markings on the gun?
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Re: Re:Norinco T59 Chineese Makarov

Post by lklawson » November 18th, 2015, 4:56 pm

chestertnted wrote:Just bought my Norinco T59 Makarov,
I own one, purchased before President Bill Clitton banned their import. Mine is chambered in 9x18 Makarov as are all of them that I have ever heard of.
and found interesting reading in the manual that came with it. It says the gun is 9×18 Ultra. The key word being Ultra. I know of the Walther Ultra round developed for more pressure, but have never seen a 9×18 Ultra.
Not quite. The 9x18 Ultra was developed to have more pressure & energy than the 9x17 Kurtz (.380ACP). The 9x18 Makarov was developed from the Ultra and has nearly identical bullet weights and velocities with almost identical case dimensions. The pressure levels between the Ultra and the Makarov are likely identical. The two are not, however, interchangeable. The Ultra uses the same bullet diameter as 380 and 9mm, whereas the Makarov uses the slightly larger bullet diameter the Soviets mandated to make their ammo incompatible with the West. You cannot fire a 9x18 Makarov cartridge in an Ultra chambered gun without risking dangerous overpressures. You might be able to fire a 9x18 Ultra cartridge in a Makarov chambered gun but the loose fit of everything would make it really stupid. Unlikely to cause an overpressure but probably cause gas cutting at the chamber shoulder, excessive fouling, and accelerated wear.
For now assuming one of those things that occur when translating. The imprint on the gun does not say Ultra.
If anybody has some input let me know!
If the pressure curves between the .380ACP and the 9x18 Makarov are close enough that you can swap barrels chambered for either on the Makarov PM frame, then it is a no brainer that nearly identical cartridges of the Ultra and Makarov could be chambered for the pistol. You MIGHT have an extremely rare 59 which was chambered for the Ultra. Does the barrel have any stampings on it? If not then take it to a competent gunsmith and have the chamber measured and maybe the barrel slugged. Be certain of what you have.

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