Fort Pistols

[Weasel640]

Still it would be nice to have one to fill out my 9x18 my collection.

Yes it would be nice to have in a 9x18 Makarov collection. Correct me if I am wrong but; as far as I can tell, the Fort pistols are the only 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols that are not available in the U.S.A. All other 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols are available in some variation or another. For 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols you've got:

Makarov PM (Russian)
Makarov PM Hi Cap (Russian)
Makarov PM (East German)
Makarov PM (China)
Makarov PM (Bulgarian)
FEG RK-59
FEG R-61
FEG PA-63
P-64
FEG AP9M
FEG APK9M
ČZ 82
ČZ 83 (Only difference is the firing pin block added)
P-83
Fort 12
Fort 14
Fort 17

Did I miss any?

[Arik]

Sir
PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I am in no way trying to bash the country. Its is my homeland and I know what I'm talking about. All I'm stating is what its like in the country and due to that what you can expect from it.

I am not bashing Ukraine. I am Ukrainian and not 2nd 3rd or 4th generation. My mom is Ukrainian My dad is Russian. I was born there and I spent my childhood summers between both countries while it was all USSR.

Comparing Germany or Czechoslovakia to the USSR is not like comparing Kentucky to Tennessee. It is more like comparing the US to Pakistan It is 3 different countries with more or less 2 different ways of thinking. While CZ is Slavic their thinking is more in line with German or Austrian thinking/logic/culture. Ukraine is not. Czechs are more or less like Germans when it comes to society. They make sure everything is precise, correct and meets standards. Ukraine is like Russia. As much as they want to wish they weren't, they are. Only minus all the oil money.

In Germany/Austria if a gun malfunctions and hurts or kills the owner/shooter. I bet you the government or somebody will be looking into it. The weapon will be taken to a lab an checked for manufacturer failures or shooter error. In Ukraine its "tough shit shouldnt have bought it"

Please understand that in that part of the world the phrase "the customer is always right" doesnt exist. Unless you have major, major money. Life is overall worthless to pretty much anyone but family. People get shot daily for stupid fender benders. If you dont like sitting at a red light hell go through someones backyard. Better yet Pay $50 US and get yourself a police light and siren from the chief. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that it coasts $6 thousand US dollars to the investigator to be found NOT GUILTY in an investigation of a DUI fatality + $200 for the family of the victim. If you go there on vacation DO NOT buy bottled watter unless you're staying in a western hotel (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt). Its all counterfeit tap water or worse. And you run the risk of getting seriously ill. A fun time out in the capital (Kiev) will coast you about a $100 US. This will include a real 5 star restaurant and an expansive prostitute. If you happened to beat her just give the cops $5-10 US dollars and they'll go away. You want to get out of a traffic violation? About $25 USD.

If you buy an expansive Japanese or German car expect that that car came from the US and was sold here as a salvage parts car. Chances are its 3 or 4 different cars with swapped Vins and a rolled back odometer.

People here read that well they had the Orange revolution in 2004 and are now pro democracy so they must be good. It couldnt be further from the truth. In reality there was no difference between the 2 candidates except for one had the backing of the US and the other of Russia. Nothing but the name has changed. Not freedom of speech not freedom of choice, nor religion, just the name.

If converted to USD the average salary is around $150 a MONTH!!! However prices are about the same as they are here! Do you think people will lie, cheat and steel to get a little more?

I fly back ones every few years. You can take a direct flight on Ukrainian airlines but I go through Germany. Why? Well maybe the planes are mechanically sound but if you step inside and see the panels half hanging and the buttons on the hand rests missing with the wires hanging out or the fact that it took 3 flight attendants to close the plane door you might change your mind about their airline.

I bring up these random points because they all go back to .....money. The more the better. The faster the better and the cheaper the better AT ALL COSTS!! If you really want to see what its like get the Russian channel on your cable or Russian Today, its in English.

Sorry for the rant. End of Hijack


EDIT: I'm am not endorsing prostitution, killing or beating of anyone. Just telling how and what daily life is like.

[rottenrick]

Well, don't think we'll have to worry about imported pistols flying apart anytime soon. Our government doesn't like to let us import arms. Thank god for engineering drawings. My son who's a marine was in what was the old soviet Georgia for two years training the Georgian military. (Those poor guys didn't stand a chance against the russians in the lastest fighting. Not enough men and equipment, but still they fought. Sorry, my son was really pissed.) Anyhow, my son has told me a lot of 'creative' ways things would get done.
What we're talking about the military has done for years, you have people who can get you anything you need. Not for personal gain now. All kinds of things would be traded. It's kinda' like getting to be a really good criminal, only using MONOPOLY MONEY. In the Navy we called it 'COMSHAW'. It was never for personal gains, but for the squadron or the command. Many times it was quality of life stuff. Example: My squadron was going to sea, to the indian ocean on this cruise (years ago) We generally had 10 shops. Hot roasting your butt off 03 level just below the flight deck. I was CPOIC of the working party loading our cargo on semi's. My supply guy calls me, no cell phones these days, asks me if I wanted some reefers, some apartment size. Don't ask questions send 2 1/2 ton stake truck three bodies and two dolly's. I sent them in a hurry. He came back with 25 brand new still in the box reefers. As luck would have it (there is NO such thing as luck) there was a waiting semi with a half full trailer to be loaded and gone. Was done in a little over five mins tops.
I asked why so many the only answer I got was 'Trade Goods'. On a lighter note two months later, safely at sea. I was called to the Skipper's stateroom, asked me about those reefers. Never lie to the skipper,told em' leaving out others names, of course. As I was sitting, looking at his brand new reefer(it barely fit). He also mentioned that the XO,OPSO,MO department heads and junior officer coops all got one. He was smiling, but all he did say is you just made us a party to it. I just smiled.
Where they had come from??? They were building new barracks, they had ordered all the stuff. We had gone on an almost nine month cruise, returned and were about to go out on work-up s for the next cruise before they found out they were missing. We always liked going to Air Force bases, it was like walking into WALMART with no money my supply people were always active. (You could never do it twice on the same base, they would watch you very closelly after that. ) They weren't stupid, just too trusting.They would just leave things wide open. In today's military, I'd have been in Ft. Leavenworth. Almost 30 yrs of undetected victim less crime, those were the days. I always supported my troops and command. Sorry about the Sea story guys. (But where do you think the old 'McHales Navy' stores came from??) There is alway's an element of truth to it. Sailors you had to watch em' all the time. Arik welcome.

[Arik]

Still it would be nice to have one to fill out my 9x18 my collection.

Yes it would be nice to have in a 9x18 Makarov collection. Correct me if I am wrong but; as far as I can tell, the Fort pistols are the only 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols that are not available in the U.S.A. All other 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols are available in some variation or another. For 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols you've got:

Makarov PM (Russian)
Makarov PM Hi Cap (Russian)
Makarov PM (East German)
Makarov PM (China)
Makarov PM (Bulgarian)
FEG RK-59
FEG R-61
FEG PA-63
P-64
FEG AP9M
FEG APK9M
ČZ 82
ČZ 83 (Only difference is the firing pin block added)
P-83
Fort 12
Fort 14
Fort 17

Did I miss any?

Stechkin machine pistol
Ruger (I'm pretty sure they made one)
Walther (at one point made one in 9x18Mak)

[Weasel640]

Stechkin machine pistol
Ruger (I'm pretty sure they made one)
Walther (at one point made one in 9x18Mak)

Stechkin machine pistol ----- I left this one off the list as it is not in the "Semi-Auto Pistol" category. There are at least seven plus machine pistols/guns chambered in 9x18 Makarov, but we'd all need class III licenses to collect those if they were even available.

Ruger ----- I can find in 9x19 Luger and 9x17 Kurz but can't find any in 9x18 Makarov. Do you know a model or have a link in mind?

Walther ----- I kind of doubt this. They were made in 9x18 Ultra/Police. Since the Makarov was designed to be "Walther like" and the round was designed around the 9x18 Ultra/Police, I don't think Walther would consecutively adopt the 9x18 Makarov.

I can get the Makarov PMs, CZs, FEGs, and Polish pistols here in the U.S.A. So unless I'm missing something, the Fort pistols are the only ones left not available for a 9x18 Makarov collection.

Like you had said "For their milatary they might make quality stuff. No company is going to risk pissing off the government in E. Europe". According to Wiki "this gun is issued to the Ukrainian police and security forces". So it'd be possible to get one that is surplus.

Either way reading through Wiki again it donned on me why we don't have these available here; "The only visible minor flaw of the Fort-12 design is the lack of the safe decocking facility." Unless U.S. laws change or Fort-12 pistols are retro-fitted with a safety, they will never be imported.

Regardless of what your opinion of the country is, the Fort pistols are the missing collection pieces. But they will not likely show up here any time soon. Like I said before; If one of their products became available in the U.S.A. I'd try them out before I pass judgment on them.

[Arik]

The Ruger I saw on gunbroker. A few weeks ago I was looking for a P64 and in their search feild I typed in "9x18" so that way anything in that caliber would show up. One of the results was a Ruger (forget model number). I was suprised as hell. The description said it was chambered in 9x18Mak and it had "9x18 makarov" writen on the slide. I've been googling for the last .30 min to try and find any info on one. Since I could not find any info I assume it was a custom job. Rugger did make one that you could change a the barrel and fire the .30 Luger bullet. Maybe the seller had a custom barrel made along with whatever else would have needed to be chaged.

Your right about the Walther. I saw one in a gun store a few months ago labeled 9x18. Nothing about the ULTRA so I assumed it was the 9x18Mak

[normsutton]

Still it would be nice to have one to fill out my 9x18 my collection.

Yes it would be nice to have in a 9x18 Makarov collection. Correct me if I am wrong but; as far as I can tell, the Fort pistols are the only 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols that are not available in the U.S.A. All other 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols are available in some variation or another. For 9x18 Makarov Semi-Auto Pistols you've got:

Makarov PM (Russian)
Makarov PM Hi Cap (Russian)
Makarov PM (East German)
Makarov PM (China)
Makarov PM (Bulgarian)
FEG RK-59
FEG R-61
FEG PA-63
P-64
FEG AP9M
FEG APK9M
ČZ 82
ČZ 83 (Only difference is the firing pin block added)
P-83
Fort 12
Fort 14
Fort 17

Did I miss any?

Weasel640
yes you did the steel framed FEG BR-61
and I nerver heard of the FORT'S

NORM

[Foo Bird]

Sir
PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I am in no way trying to bash the country. Its is my homeland and I know what I'm talking about. All I'm stating is what its like in the country and due to that what you can expect from it.

I am not bashing Ukraine. I am Ukrainian and not 2nd 3rd or 4th generation. My mom is Ukrainian My dad is Russian. I was born there and I spent my childhood summers between both countries while it was all USSR.

Comparing Germany or Czechoslovakia to the USSR is not like comparing Kentucky to Tennessee. It is more like comparing the US to Pakistan It is 3 different countries with more or less 2 different ways of thinking. While CZ is Slavic their thinking is more in line with German or Austrian thinking/logic/culture. Ukraine is not. Czechs are more or less like Germans when it comes to society. They make sure everything is precise, correct and meets standards. Ukraine is like Russia. As much as they want to wish they weren't, they are. Only minus all the oil money.

In Germany/Austria if a gun malfunctions and hurts or kills the owner/shooter. I bet you the government or somebody will be looking into it. The weapon will be taken to a lab an checked for manufacturer failures or shooter error. In Ukraine its "tough $%^# shouldnt have bought it"

Please understand that in that part of the world the phrase "the customer is always right" doesnt exist. Unless you have major, major money. Life is overall worthless to pretty much anyone but family. People get shot daily for stupid fender benders. If you dont like sitting at a red light hell go through someones backyard. Better yet Pay $50 US and get yourself a police light and siren from the chief. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that it coasts $6 thousand US dollars to the investigator to be found NOT GUILTY in an investigation of a DUI fatality + $200 for the family of the victim. If you go there on vacation DO NOT buy bottled watter unless you're staying in a western hotel (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt). Its all counterfeit tap water or worse. And you run the risk of getting seriously ill. A fun time out in the capital (Kiev) will coast you about a $100 US. This will include a real 5 star restaurant and an expansive prostitute. If you happened to beat her just give the cops $5-10 US dollars and they'll go away. You want to get out of a traffic violation? About $25 USD.

If you buy an expansive Japanese or German car expect that that car came from the US and was sold here as a salvage parts car. Chances are its 3 or 4 different cars with swapped Vins and a rolled back odometer.

People here read that well they had the Orange revolution in 2004 and are now pro democracy so they must be good. It couldnt be further from the truth. In reality there was no difference between the 2 candidates except for one had the backing of the US and the other of Russia. Nothing but the name has changed. Not freedom of speech not freedom of choice, nor religion, just the name.

If converted to USD the average salary is around $150 a MONTH!!! However prices are about the same as they are here! Do you think people will lie, cheat and steel to get a little more?

I fly back ones every few years. You can take a direct flight on Ukrainian airlines but I go through Germany. Why? Well maybe the planes are mechanically sound but if you step inside and see the panels half hanging and the buttons on the hand rests missing with the wires hanging out or the fact that it took 3 flight attendants to close the plane door you might change your mind about their airline.

I bring up these random points because they all go back to .....money. The more the better. The faster the better and the cheaper the better AT ALL COSTS!! If you really want to see what its like get the Russian channel on your cable or Russian Today, its in English.

Sorry for the rant. End of Hijack


EDIT: I'm am not endorsing prostitution, killing or beating of anyone. Just telling how and what daily life is like.

(Looks up Ukraine on map, starts planning vacation.)

[eDwaRdz]

Hi everyone I am planning to buy a pistol, it's my first to own a gun is Fort pistol is good for a first timer?

[lklawson]

Hi everyone I am planning to buy a pistol, it's my first to own a gun is Fort pistol is good for a first timer?

A little bit of necro-threading here.

I don't know if anyone on this board has any direct experience with the FORT pistols because, as best as I can find, they're still not being imported to the U.S.

One big reason for this is because, in their standard config, they don't make enough "points." I think they could be made to make points by swapping the standard grips for "target" grips and maybe the same for the sights.

I don't think anyone over at the FORT factory or in the management chain has made any real efforts to export their pistols to the U.S. market.

If they did, they could probably make money, but how much is anyone's guess. I'd buy one, especially if they included the standard grips and sights as "spare parts" so that I could switch them back.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[DoubleTap]

The FORT pistols look quite interesting, at least based upon what I saw on Wikipedia. I wouldn't mind owning one.