Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

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truth

Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by truth » July 26th, 2006, 10:06 pm

When I was 17 I joined the U.S.C.G. after boot and a few weeks at my first duty station I found myself at Maritime Law Enforcement School. We were carrying 45acp; single action' low capacity mags. After school I found myself doing lots of boarding and drug interdiction. I had to rely on drawing and cocking in one swift motion to protect myself and my boarding party. It was about placement of rounds and training, not smooth DA or high cap mags. the year was 1986, we had a DRUG CZAR named Bennett and something called ZERO TOLERANCE and a left over slogan from Nancy Regan: JUST SAY NO. We had a war on drugs and the Coast Guard was in the front line. Trust me, you can draw and cock a hammer in one quick motion. Two years later they took our 45s, 6cell mag-lites, and gave us Berettas, mini-mags, and an ASP baton. Trust me, neither of those tools work as well as the 45 and a 6 cell mag-lite. I am not a plinker or a collector, I have some experience, and the p-64 was DESIGNED the way you bought it. No matter what ammo was available, they never changed springs on this piece. I did not mean to offend anyone, but each of you bought a P-64 as it was intended to be used. Do what you will with it... It is a fine gun, as is, for collecting, plinking, or concealed carry.

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by fjblackesq » July 27th, 2006, 2:13 am

wow at last someone talking sense. AND TRUTH IS HIS NAME !!!!!!!

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by abwehr » July 27th, 2006, 11:52 am

I had advanced combat training at Fort Benning, GA with the .45 ACP and the pistol was a standard issue .45. Nothing special about the pistol, but it was in excellent condition (same pistol I used). I was tought the same as "truth" draw and cock in a smooth simple action. To me the hi-cap magazines are fine, but the standard magazines were fine for me. I did carry several spare mags for my .45 and I could change one in a hurry. My primary weapon I carried was either a Russian made milled steel AK (preferred) or the M-16. I never ran completly out of ammo for the rifles, but my backup would be grenades and as a last resort, the .45. I did keep the .45 handy when in camp or when in the mountains with the "yards" (never really trusted them, LOL). I like what "truth" had to say in his last post too!

I always told my guys....."The best defense is a good offense, and carry a BIG Stick"

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by himmel » July 27th, 2006, 3:55 pm

I'm with Truth and Abwehr re using the CZAK like an SA--but I am curious, I thought the preferred method for carrying the 1911 was "cocked and locked" ???

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by bzinggg » July 27th, 2006, 5:13 pm

I'm with Truth and Abwehr re using the CZAK like an SA--but I am curious, I thought the preferred method for carrying the 1911 was "cocked and locked" ???
Absolutely!

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by abwehr » July 27th, 2006, 5:18 pm

himmel,

You are correct about the method of carry for the 1911 being cocked and locked, but I prefered to carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. AS long as I kept the pistol in the hlster and the flap closed, I was not too worried about dropping the pistol, and the round going off. The reason I carried this way, was for my hand to reach the safety lever, I had to shift my grip from the shooting hold. I have sort of short fingers and shifting during combat is not what I wanted to do. Did I do wrong; yes, I did for normal Concealed Carry today. In my combat zones, I was the ranking officer and I carried pretty much as I wanted. On base was different, LOL!

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by himmel » July 27th, 2006, 5:56 pm

yeah, I did that hammer down on loaded chamber thing with my Zastava--I ain't doing it again!

truth

Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by truth » July 27th, 2006, 8:16 pm

Thanks, This is how I, personally, carried the 45. Was i WRONG?

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by abwehr » July 28th, 2006, 12:01 pm

truth,

Carrying any pistol with the hammer down with a loaded chamber is not the best way unless there is a hammer block of some sort in case the pistol falls to the ground. If the hammer hit the ground first, the round could go off.

When you are in a combat situation, this was not very important to me as I wante to be able to draw the pistol cock the hammer and start firing quickly.

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by pshootr » July 28th, 2006, 10:38 pm

You're right. The P-64 has a safety notch on the hammer. Try this: With the hammer lowered and the safety off, try to push the hammer as far forward as it will go. Note it's position. Now, after of course checking that the chamber is empty, now check again, and pull the trigger all the way thru and let the hammer fall. Without ever releasing the trigger try to push the hammer all the way forward again. Note that it now goes further forward. As long as the trigger is not pulled back the hammer is blocked from going far enough forward to contact the firing pin. Some guns lack this safety feature, for instance the Kel-Tec P-11. Most others have it, such as the Kel-Tec P-32 & P-3AT, the Makarov, etc.

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by himmel » July 31st, 2006, 6:15 pm

I think the ones with the "decock" lever have that feature--Isn't that called a "rebounding hammer"?

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by normsutton » August 5th, 2006, 5:57 am

STEVE

You should be fine with the !6# sping just don't shoot any thing over a 95 grn. bullet most of the 95 grn. bullet's are.363 dia. SILVER BEAR'S are .364s dia. never mic . wolf ammo so don't know about them. Still don't know what the small s stands for on my calipers must mean (slightly larger ) ( LOL )

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by steve98664 » August 5th, 2006, 6:27 pm

Norm,

Thanks for the info on the 16# spring! I didn't address projectile weight in the information below, because the post was for the Mak forum where projectile weight isn't as critical as on a P64. Here are my measurements in a post I did elsewhere, but it's relevant here. I used my new Nesko caliper, which is just ok.

The AIM add has the actual boxes of the new Silver Bear pictured. I looked at the box and it says zinc coated. This leads me to believe it is RAM, but I'll get my ammo on Monday. My last box of old Silver Bear HP says nickel plated on it. My 9 month old boxes of RAM FMJ say zinc coated.

I was curious why some ammo feeds and some doesn't. Here is what I came up with so far. I took the extractor gap measurements differently because the actual gap is what is critical, I think. That seems to be the biggest factor.

Next is projectile shape and HP hole diameter if present. I didn't measure some parameters like weights, etc which obviously will affect things too. Mostly, I used just a single box of ammo and put the numbers to the nearest 0.1mm because there is so much variation cartridge to cartridge anyhow.

The cartridges I measured would all have a taper, but the projectile insertion bulges the casing. Only S&B and Wolf have a taper even with the projectile bulge. I think the center of the casing diameter is negligible because the projectile end of the casing is most critical for feeding. The web and projectile end together affect seating, I think.

Reeds ammo gave me slight casing bulges at one point on my CZ82. The reason appears to be because the casing is smaller and will expand more. Build up in the chamber for that range visit probably had an impact on bulging too. They use high quality starline brass as far as I know. Reeds didn't feed very well either. The chamber on my CZ82 is slightly larger than my Mak and P64.

RAM HP:

OAL=23.9mm
Casing length=18mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.9mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.9mm
HP hole diameter edge to sharp edge, exterior=7mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.4mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=No

Reeds Gold Dot:

OAL=23.9mm
Casing length=17.9mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.8mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.8mm
HP hole diameter edge to sharp edge, exterior=6.4mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.0mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=No

Silver Bear Old, 120g:

OAL=24.5mm
Casing length=18mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.9mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.9mm
HP hole diameter edge to sharp edge, exterior=6.4mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.4mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=No

S&B:

OAL=24.8mm
Casing length=18mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.8mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.9mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.5mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=Yes

RAM FMJ:

OAL=24.8mm
Casing length=18mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.9mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.9mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.4mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=No

MESKO FMJ:

OAL=24.9mm
Casing length=18mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.9mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.9mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.4mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=No

Wolf 100g FMJ cones:

OAL=24.8mm
Casing length=18mm
Diameter at casing mouth=9.80mm
Diameter at extractor gap=9.85mm
Extractor Gap with Taper=2.4mm
Casing Taper web to mouth=Yes

S&B feeds best on all of my 9x18's. The Wolf projectile shape is the biggest factor for feeding that ammo in my opinion. The portion of the Wolf projectile that extends out of the mouth of the shell, then drops off sharply as it starts to form the cone is probably the feature that affects some pistols differently.

I focused my comments and measurements on ammo that works well for me or doesn't work very well at all.

I got this picture with specifications, but I can't even remember where.

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Last edited by steve98664 on August 5th, 2006, 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by normsutton » August 6th, 2006, 5:39 am

STEVE

I didn't realize you were having feeding problems I thought you talking about the 16# spring in your P-64 witch shouldn't have anything to do with feeding problem but mag drops that another thing shoot the lighter bullets and there shouldn't be a problem. with mag drop's

to change the spring if you chock the hammer there should be a little hole right below the spring and mag release put a piece of wire or a small nail in it then release hammer then take your punch and push the pin out by hand then clamp the bar in vise then take small vise grips clamp around mag release push down take out wire slowly let up put new spring in push mag release down put wire back in then put back in gun it should make it a lot easier ( hope I explained that right )

you done a lot of research on the 9x18 and I thank you for that could you pull some of the bullets and mic. them because I'm buying any more bullets i have enough to reload for years to come.

all my reloading manuals are in in. that probably why I'm getting this small s on measurements don't know maybe I'll try mm.


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Replacing the mainspring for lighter DA pull

Post by tunnelrat » August 6th, 2006, 10:28 pm

You are correct about the method of carry for the 1911 being cocked and locked, but I prefered to carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. AS long as I kept the pistol in the hlster and the flap closed, I was not too worried about dropping the pistol, and the round going off.
Yup, me, too! I am left-handed and couldn't carry my GI .45 cocked and locked. There was no ambidextrous safety on Uncle Sam's guns! I would carry in Condition Two: hammer down on a chambered round. I felt very comfortable with it in the big flap holster.

Of course, it took a bit of practice to draw, cock, and fire.

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