Circled 11 Code

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abwehr
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Circled 11 Code

Post by abwehr » May 8th, 2006, 10:42 am

The following is from another thread that I thought would be a good discussion point from you guys. What confirming information can we find to sustantiate which is correct? If we get some good info, I will make a stickey out of it.


May 6, 2006, 9:20am, hawkerjim wrote:Can anyone tell me the significance of the circled no. 11 on the slide?

Hawkerjim



I just joined the forum. I collect Communist Bloc/WWII military surplus rifles. I have recently decided to add handguns to my collection. The Mosin-Nagant M44 that was manufactured in Poland also has the number 11 inside an oval on the barrel shank. This symbol is the country code for Poland. (Hungary's code was: 02.) Although I have not seen a P-64 up close, what you described sounds identical to the code on the M-44.

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Circled 11 Code

Post by hawkerjim » May 11th, 2006, 5:18 pm

ABWEHR

Thanks for the prompt reply;interesting!!!!

For what it's worth, I ordered the Tula match 22 from sog. If anyone wants a report try mahart@cedarville.net.

What a great website this is. Need a magazine.

Hawkerjim

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Circled 11 Code

Post by hawkerjim » May 11th, 2006, 5:22 pm

Correction:

Perhaps P64 should start a Tula Match 22 website since he's so good at it!!!!!

Hawkerjim

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Circled 11 Code

Post by steve98664 » July 1st, 2006, 4:51 pm

Hey all,

I found this site that gives some insight into Eastern European markings. I'm still looking for a site that had more information like this. There were codes for each eastern european country and factory codes too.

http://code10.kalashnikov.guns.ru/mlist.html

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Circled 11 Code

Post by abwehr » July 2nd, 2006, 8:48 am

steve98664,

Thanks for posting this information! This sort of confirms that the Circle 11 does mean the pistol was manufactured at the Radom Plant in Poland.

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Circled 11 Code

Post by royke » July 26th, 2006, 8:11 pm

You will also find Circle 11 on the Polish "Tokarev" TT33 Pistols. I believe these to be the best quality "Toks" made anywhere. You Poles do nice work.

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Circled 11 Code

Post by abwehr » July 27th, 2006, 12:18 pm

royke,

You are right, Poland did manufacture some very fine weapons! The Radom was well liked by the German SS or any others that could get their hands on them. The Polish "Tokarev" TT33 is probably the best ones ever made. Even under Communist rule, they did keep their quality reasonably high. As with the P-64, there are some minor quality issues with some pistols, but not the majority.

I have a couple of the Polish AK rifles I built from kits and the workmanship on these rifles are the best I have seen on any AK! Also the Polish SKS is the best I have ever seen too. They make the Russian, Chinese, or any other SKS manufacture "pale" in comparison.

My opinion is that Germany has the best quality firemarms, with Belgium and Poland neck & neck for second place.

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Circled 11 Code

Post by sturmgrenadier » December 28th, 2006, 12:38 pm

All soviet factories had code numbers assigned to them. The number 11 just happened to be Radom's number.

If you look at the Polish Optics Works or JZO, their number was 131 as you see on the traceability of the PU scope

Image

Image

I first became aware of the Oval 131 through a set of binoculars...

Image

Some history on Polish manufacturing...

Poland

Domestic Arms Production

Under the communist system, the Ministry of National Defense ran nineteen manufacturing and repair plants, but about eighty plants were designated as defense industry enterprises under branches of the Ministry of Industry. In the late 1980s, the largest military goods producers were the Stalowa Wola Steel Works, the Kasprzak Radio Works, the Krasnik Ball-Bearing Plant, the Wifama Textile Machinery Combine, the Stomil Tire Plant, the Polish Aviation Combine, the Pronit firm, the Northern and Wisla shipyards in Gdansk, the Lucznik Works, the Starachowice Truck Factory, the Polish Optical Works, the Bumar-Labedy Engineering Equipment Combine, and the Olkusz Enamel Plant. In most cases, over 85 percent of a plant's production went to nondefense customers; the shipyards, the Bumar-Labedy combine, and the Stalowa Wola Steel Works were among the few producers whose output went mostly to the military. In 1988 military goods producers employed about 260,000 people and accounted for about 3 percent of total output of enterprises under the Ministry of Industry. At the same time, over 6 percent of Poland's total exports were military products. Of military output, 49 percent went to the Polish military, 46 percent was exported, and 5 percent went to the ministries of justice and internal affairs. By 1992 military goods had dropped from 3 percent to 1 percent of total industrial output.

Polish military industries began planning for conversion to civilian production in 1987, when the Warsaw Pact was developing its new defensive posture. Some twenty of the eighty designated defense industry enterprises were considered for closure or conversion to civilian functions. Meanwhile, all defense industries made long-term plans for greatly reduced orders between 1991 and 1995. By 1990 military contracts had dropped by 30 to 80 percent, depending on the plant. Spending on weaponry had dropped by 84 percent. These reductions in demand led to unemployment and unused industrial capacity. Defense industries also lost the privileged position they had enjoyed in the communist economy. Gone in 1990 were supply priority, lowinterest credit, state subsidies, and tax exemptions. Industry pessimism increased in 1990 and 1991 when military planners considered replacing Soviet- and Polish-made equipment with Western equipment.

Conversion of defense industry plants to civilian production faced serious obstacles. Deep cuts in the defense budget left little money for a centrally administered program or for the massive investment required to convert heavy industry. Because long-range military needs remained undefined in 1992, the degree of conversion would require guesswork. Finally, some plants simply could not be converted at any reasonable cost.

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Circled 11 Code

Post by nbender » December 28th, 2006, 1:29 pm

Great comments on country and factory codes.

Now, does anybody know anything about Chinese ammunition plant codes? I've been trying to track down the plant that made the 9x18 commonly available either as "Norinco" or "Jing An". The headstamp on the stuff I own is in military code, e.g. "71 93", indicating it was made in 1993 at a plant coded "71". I haven't found any info on the various Chinese ammo plants. That's sort of in line with this thread, isn't it?

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Circled 11 Code

Post by nbender » December 28th, 2006, 1:35 pm

Here's a link to a little more info on European weapons/ammo plants, from an AK-47 perspective:

http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Factories.php#yu

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Circled 11 Code

Post by truth » March 9th, 2007, 10:36 pm


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Circled 11 Code

Post by carguy » March 25th, 2007, 10:45 pm

If you click on nbenders url about the AK-47s, scroll half way down to the picture of Mr. Kalishnakof answer this, why did they exchange ties and more importantly where is his RIGHT HAND!?

Either he is very little or they grow them big in the "former" soviet block!!

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