9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

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nicksterdemus
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nicksterdemus » February 3rd, 2007, 7:52 am

Norm I read in the paper 'bout Lady Lake n had 2 check coz I remembered some Lake in FLA were you was. Glad I find out it's Lakeland.

What were the stats on the sub-machine gun rounds w/hardarse primers?
Was their velocity/weight the same or greater? I saw the owners manual copy that had the ammo 4 the 64 @ 60 sumpthin' gr. Was wonderin' if there was a listinin 4 the ' per sec although I supposed being metric they would've used a different standard of measurement

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by normsutton » February 3rd, 2007, 8:54 am

nicksterdemus

We had some ruff weather yesterday but all is fine here now

As a long time hand loader I don't worry about mzl. vel. all I'm concerned with is cup. pressure's


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nicksterdemus
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nicksterdemus » February 3rd, 2007, 9:41 am

That's kewl my brother. I don't reload but the pressure in the chamber is directly related to the weight n speed of the bullet. As I understand subgun ammo is basically pistol ammo. I was just interested if the subgun was heavier bullet/more charge/faster. The 127 gn Ranger 9mm ammo says not to use in an Uzi as I guess the Uzi wasn't designed for use w/that ammo.
I take it being the 9x18 Makarov isn't "recognized" by SAAMI standards that you base your conclusions/assumptions on............what?
I only challenge your mind coz being weaker I need help understanding the logic behind the principal.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by normsutton » February 3rd, 2007, 10:50 am

nick

That would be true about the chamber pressure if every body use the same powder but they don't a slower burning rated powder is more consistent though the barrel of the gun than faster burning powder.

I have no idea about the UZi maybe its the way the bolt operates

saami standards you have to ask NBENDER on that one

if your talking about my misgivings on wolf ammo , to many pierced primer's with their ammo and its not just with 9x18

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nicksterdemus » February 3rd, 2007, 2:27 pm

Ballpark figures are fine 4 me. What I'm tryin' 2 get @ is that if indeed Wolf is coming out w/120 gn hp that's pushin' 275'lb then they must have deigned it for the Mak w/3.9"brl (Maybe the cz83 which is 4"?)which is just a tad over a 1/2" longer than the 64. Both are all steel. Pressure would be a little less outa the 64 w/same ammo n the bullet would be a little slower. Both pistols are blow back design. W/exception of not having stiffer recoil springs available 4 the 64 I can't see why you couldn't use it in the 64 unless the chamber wouldn't stand under the pressure. Is any1 else making a 9x18 that's not a blowback? Is the Mak or cz pistols' chamber that much stronger than the 64s'? I read where cz claims its' 9x18 was 20o/o stronger and/or ammo was. I've heard how nasty Wolf ammo is n some folks that altered the mainspring couldn't get good hits on the primers but I'm thinkin' if they come out w/hot load then other cleaner burnin' loads from different manufactures is bound 2 follow.
Last edited by nicksterdemus on February 3rd, 2007, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nbender » February 3rd, 2007, 3:31 pm

Wolf has earned a poor reputation for quality control. Makarov.com will not sell Wolf. There have been numerous photos presented over the years by forum members of various problems with the ammo. One guy had a casing without primer holes - went off in a spectacular fashion. He was spared injury - the Makarov is one tough pistol. I have not had a problem with Wolf, but I recognize that a lot of people have.

Wolf came out with that 120-grain stuff for a short period over a year ago. I shot 13 rounds through a chronograph one cold morning - the recoil is incredibly stout. It averaged 982 fps.

I also shot it through 7, 1-gallon water jugs to test the expansion. It went through all 7 and out into the forest, making a clean exit hole with no expansion. I shot it into soaked newspaper - no expansion. The inside of the hollow point is lined with steel and there are no serrations on the casing to aid expansion.

The Russians don't work with SAMMI standards, but I'm sure this Wolf 120-grain meets the standards set by the Commission Internationale Permanente (CIP), an international association of proof houses. Whether it's good fodder for the P-64 - personally, based on the recoil through a Makarov, I don't think it's good fodder for any of our 9x18 shooters. At the very least it's an uncomfortable round to shoot and it's going to cause accelerated wear. I don't believe that it would be flat hazardous to shoot in a P-64, but I go with caution as my guide and I won't do it.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nicksterdemus » February 3rd, 2007, 4:08 pm

Thank ya as I always respect the voice of experience. So this isn't a new hp just an old 1 being brought back. This is the 1st Wolf I've bought coz I'd ordered from The Ammunition Store n after 'bout 6 days I called(4 days since I noticed they'd billed my CC) n asked then they put me on hold n magically while on hold I received a call from guess who informing me that the 9x18 I ordered was out of stock n seemed suprised that I didn't want to wait till the 18th on backorder. I swapped a bud my other 64 4 a revolver n need some mo' ammo. I not so politely told ammosto' to credit my account. Oh well................

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nbender » February 3rd, 2007, 5:03 pm

The 95-grain Wolf ("Military Classic") that is now out is a new round. I was relating my experience with the 120-grain HP, which was briefly sold some time ago.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by nicksterdemus » February 4th, 2007, 12:08 pm

Dang if I ain't guessin' wrong on a regular basis. I figured the 95 was an old load in a new box, until your post thought the 120hp was a new load.

I'm glad I don't have any money on the superbowl......................Go Bears......................

If indeed they bring back the 100 n 120 why do ya think they made such a big jump of 20gn
? Seems like instead of 95, 100, 120 they would've made a 105 or 110 instead of 100.

OK I see where they did make a 109 that seemed 2 be a dud.
Last edited by nicksterdemus on February 4th, 2007, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by tmann11 » May 16th, 2007, 10:29 am

Check out Buffalo Bore Ammunition for some insane loads. I ordered the "Heavy 10mm" load for my Glock 20. The specs are 200 gr. F.M.J. - F.N. (1,200fps/M.E. 639 ft.lbs.) and 180 gr. Speer Uni Core - J.H.P. (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft.lbs.). I don't see any ammunition for the 9x18, but I thought I'd send this out if you were looking for serious ammunition for your other guns.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#10mm

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