9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

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ckruger
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by ckruger » March 5th, 2006, 5:46 am

My dealer said the 9mm mak in a short barreled auto is about the same stopping power as a 38 special in a snub barreled revolver, any proof to back this up? Thanks CK.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by mikethewreck » March 5th, 2006, 3:31 pm

From http://www.sportsmansguide.com/resource ... 8spbal.htm
a normal (non + P) .38 special has ~ 200 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.

Blazer 9mm Mak ammo is about 220 ft-lbs at the muzzle.
http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?sect ... blazer.asp

Most .38 special + P loadings leave the Mak round in the dirt.

Here is (from another forum) a thread comparing the two:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.p ... 6&t=184324

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abwehr
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by abwehr » March 5th, 2006, 5:54 pm

Mikethewreck,

Great information, thanks for pulling this together for us. I think this needs to be a sticky too!

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by xelloss » March 6th, 2006, 9:14 am

Hmmm... Makes one wonder just what a really hot-loaded Mak round would do... ;D ;D ;D Need one of those Russian revolvers chambered in 9mm Mak to play with... ;) ;) ;)

-Mark

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by saands » March 8th, 2006, 1:13 am

I've clocked 95gr XTP loads out of my more heavily sprung p64 averaging 1204 fps :o :o That was with new brass and it was NOT reloadable (think Glock smiley) ... I've backed off some from that 305ft-lb load (it seemed fine in the Mak, but too hot for the P64), but it seems like 250 ft-lb loadings are within the realm of reason if used for special occasions. I've also played around with 95 ft-lb loads ... now THOSE are a pleasure to shoot!

All things said and tallied, I still don't think that the 9x18 out of a P64 can match the 38+p ... even with hot loads.

Saands

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by himmel » March 8th, 2006, 12:14 pm

just from reading "Cartridges of the World", it looks like the Mak is close to the standard .38 Special, but not to the +Ps, in terms of ballistics..However, I wonder if, in terms of "stopping power", that hemispherical, slightly-larger-in-diameter bullet might have some advantage over your basic round-nose .38 ???
Last edited by himmel on March 8th, 2006, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ckruger
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by ckruger » March 9th, 2006, 10:59 am

nope I was sure it did not reach +P level but thought ii sounded realistic that it matched standard 38 spl loads when fired out of a short barrelled revolver...i.e. could do worse than the P-64 as an ankle back up gun. Thanks for the info- Great site. C.K.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by himmel » March 9th, 2006, 11:39 am

Hey, just ask Warthog if you could do worse--he'll tell you all about the useless .25 caliber!! LOL!! I think the Mak is a great caliber myself, at normal SD situation ranges it should certainly do the job, with less likelihood of passing straight through the taget than the 9mm Para--but that's just my uneducated opinion...

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by mikethewreck » March 13th, 2006, 5:36 pm

Just got in new 9mm Mak PowRBall ammo.

70 gr round
1300 fps
263 ft/lbs energy

I plan on shooting it soon. I hope with the light cartridge the recoil will be better. The rounds are really cool, polymer ball surrounded by a hollow point.

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abwehr
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by abwehr » March 14th, 2006, 8:18 am

mike,

This is what I have been waiting for, info on the PowRBall Mak round. Please let us know how it shoots and if it does well, a trip to my gun shop is in order this weekend! By the way, where did you find it?

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by himmel » March 14th, 2006, 11:23 am

Is that anything like the old Glaser "safety slug"? Are those still around??

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by mikethewreck » March 16th, 2006, 7:22 pm

Glasers in 9 x 18 still around.

The PowRBall is a 70g round composed of a hollowpoint with a polymer ball in the cavity, so it should feed like FMJ, penetrate clothing well, and then expand very well. I ordered direct from the company and it took forever to get here, but I think they may have been tweaking the design. I bought 6 boxes so I should be able to get some good feed, accuracy, and recoil results. I don't have a chrony so I can't tell you its actual speed from the P-64 barrel. My Saturday is packed so I don't know if I can get to give you a range report this week.

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abwehr
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by abwehr » March 17th, 2006, 4:58 am

I have the PowRball for my .40 S&W pistols. When I first saw the cartridges, I was not impressed with the appearance, but the gun shop owner had some fired rounds and after seeing the expansion, I was definelty impressed with them. When I go to my gunshop, I am asking about him getting some in 9mm Mak. Everyone has their own opinion about ammo (and firearms), but I like the PowRball round. From what little I know, I think they will beat out the Glaser rounds.

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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by burnsie » March 21st, 2006, 1:14 pm

Depends on ammo - and how you measure "stopping power."

My two biggest concerns are:
1. Penetration - If you don't have it, you can't reach vital organs.
2. Diameter of cavitiy(cavities) - a secondary concern.

Once those factors are established - then I think about velocity. Its not my primary concern.

Comparing the .38 (including +P, which is loaded in my Taurus snub) with the 9mm Mak has given me these conclusions:

Penetration - With FMJ, it doesn't really matter. My FMJ in my P-64 will give sufficient penetration, if not over-penetration. So will my .38 wadcutters. The problem occurs when HPs are introduced to the equation. From what I've dug up, I can't find a Mak HP that will expand reliably AND penetrate consistently to 11-12 inches (8 inches is the best I can find). On the other hand, my .38 +P load (Speer GD 135) expands very reliably and penetrates consistently to 11inches or better.

Cavity Diameter/Velocity - A 9mm Mak round in FMJ, generally speaking, should have almost as much of a permanent wound channel as a 9mm Para, therefore should be right around .38 Special territory. The temporary cavity should be a bit less, due to less velocity. I don't know the exact numbers.

For these reasons, I carry the GD HP 135 in my Taurus, and Fiocchi 95 grain FMJ in my Mak.

I'd love to hear responses to this analysis. I'm always looking for the best loads. I am looking forward to see how the new Powerball round penetrates. My guess is that it will expand well - Powerball has a reputation for good expansion - as does Corbon in general.

As a side note - I would carry 9mm Mak quality HPs or FMJ over .380 any day of the week.
Last edited by burnsie on March 21st, 2006, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

himmel
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9mm mak stopping power vs 38 special?

Post by himmel » March 21st, 2006, 5:52 pm

My response: Whew!!! LOL! I'm plainly outta my league here....

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