Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Mods and Fixes by P-64 users...
LantanaTX
Junior member
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 2:10 pm
Location: Lantana, Texas

Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by LantanaTX »

I have all four and wondered if there was a consensus on the best one? I am more worried about reliability for CCW than a hair trigger.
LantanaTX
Junior member
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 2:10 pm
Location: Lantana, Texas

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by LantanaTX »

Well since I got no response, I decided to install the 18# and take it to the range tomorrow morning.
User avatar
Weasel640
Forum supporter
Forum supporter
Posts: 680
Joined: March 13th, 2010, 9:14 pm
Location: Nothing permanent.

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by Weasel640 »

I'm amusing you are asking about the hammer spring. You really should specify as we do change out the recoil spring as well.

The 18# one is the one I use and I like it just fine. I have not tried the 17# tho. It all depends on your gun. Some people have report light strikes and to hair of a trigger with the 17#, where others have liked it fine.

You could also try them with snap caps to see what you like better in both double and single action. Then take to the range to verify function.
Weasel

When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence.
LantanaTX
Junior member
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 2:10 pm
Location: Lantana, Texas

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by LantanaTX »

Weasel640 wrote:I'm amusing you are asking about the hammer spring. You really should specify as we do change out the recoil spring as well.

The 18# one is the one I use and I like it just fine. I have not tried the 17# tho. It all depends on your gun. Some people have report light strikes and to hair of a trigger with the 17#, where others have liked it fine.

You could also try them with snap caps to see what you like better in both double and single action. Then take to the range to verify function.
Yes, I should have stated main/hammer spring. I have a 22# recoil spring which I like. The 18# hammer spring feels good. Will find out tomorrow if it causes any problems.
User avatar
Curly1
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 2529
Joined: September 20th, 2011, 11:35 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by Curly1 »

Be on the look out for the mag disengaging on the last round and your slide won't hold open.
Laugh Hard and Often.

Gary
LantanaTX
Junior member
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 2:10 pm
Location: Lantana, Texas

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by LantanaTX »

Curly1 wrote:Be on the look out for the mag disengaging on the last round and your slide won't hold open.
Just got back from the range after shooting with the 18# main spring and 22# recoil spring. Shot two boxes of Red Army Standard and for the most part the gun was flawless. As you stated, I did have one mag drop on the last round and of course the slide did not lock back. This was towards the end of my shooting and I was feeling great about the gun until that happened. Guess I will continue up the scale until I get complete reliability.

On a side note my wife came with me with her NIB Phoenix HP22A. For being brand new, only $119, and a .22, I expected her to have some issues. That little gun performed flawless!
User avatar
Curly1
Elite member
Elite member
Posts: 2529
Joined: September 20th, 2011, 11:35 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by Curly1 »

Let us know what combo works out best for you.
Laugh Hard and Often.

Gary
LantanaTX
Junior member
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 2:10 pm
Location: Lantana, Texas

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by LantanaTX »

Will do, It sure would be nice if there was a way to have a separate spring to hold the mag instead of sharing the hammer spring. With the stock main spring, I have a little trouble cocking the round hammer or accurately shooting it in DA. I bought a latter hammer which should make cocking it easier if I end up back at the heavy hammer spring. The goal is to carry this gun canceled. I would prefer to carry this with one in the chamber/DA. I am having a hard time understanding what would cause the mag to release on the last shot. Anyone figure out the mechanics of this? It would probably be easier to address if I knew what the cause was. Overall, I love the P-64.
wlockridge
Member
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 1:27 pm
Location: North Benton Ohio

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by wlockridge »

LantanaTX, hello!
I've found the best combination to be 18# for the hammer spring and 20# for the recoil spring and , for the most part, I shoot Buffalo Bore +P almost exclusively nowadays. There's more than one reason for the slide failing to lock back on the last round, for failing to completely return to breech, and for failing to feed or completely extract (stove piping). The first involves improper lubrication and maintenance, the second, a too heavy recoil spring and/or substandard ammunition, the third, "limp wristing" (failing to maintain a secure grip during firing), the fourth, an obstruction in the slides path (possibly your skin :shock: ), and finally, failure to periodically remove the carbon buildup ring that occurs just inside the breech as a result of the normal blow back characteristics of the weapon. Any one of these can result in failures. For proper operation to occur, the slide on this weapon, on all semi autos really, needs to move completely to the rear of it's travel prior to returning to breech. As to the magazine dropping unexpectedly, a weak hammer spring is one reason but worn magazines themselves, as well as other conditions, can also cause this. The condition of these weapons varies widely from nearly new to completely worn out making it nearly impossibly to point to any one condition as the only cause of any certain failure. Well there's my two cents. It's Sunday and I'm lazy :D . Stay safe.
Bill
Shoot first, Shoot straight, and hit what you're aiming at, if you can do these things and have six rounds of ammo, you'll have two thirds more than you need to prevail.
LantanaTX
Junior member
Posts: 44
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 2:10 pm
Location: Lantana, Texas

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by LantanaTX »

wlockridge wrote:LantanaTX, hello!
I've found the best combination to be 18# for the hammer spring and 20# for the recoil spring and , for the most part, I shoot Buffalo Bore +P almost exclusively nowadays. There's more than one reason for the slide failing to lock back on the last round, for failing to completely return to breech, and for failing to feed or completely extract (stove piping). The first involves improper lubrication and maintenance, the second, a too heavy recoil spring and/or substandard ammunition, the third, "limp wristing" (failing to maintain a secure grip during firing), the fourth, an obstruction in the slides path (possibly your skin :shock: ), and finally, failure to periodically remove the carbon buildup ring that occurs just inside the breech as a result of the normal blow back characteristics of the weapon. Any one of these can result in failures. For proper operation to occur, the slide on this weapon, on all semi autos really, needs to move completely to the rear of it's travel prior to returning to breech. As to the magazine dropping unexpectedly, a weak hammer spring is one reason but worn magazines themselves, as well as other conditions, can also cause this. The condition of these weapons varies widely from nearly new to completely worn out making it nearly impossibly to point to any one condition as the only cause of any certain failure. Well there's my two cents. It's Sunday and I'm lazy :D . Stay safe.
Bill
Thanks for your reply, I can pretty much eliminate most of the reasons above. I can tell you the slide not locking back is from the mag dropping lose as without an empty mag the slide will not lock back, Only happened on last round. I have two brand new mags which I will try.
whitelightning777
Junior member
Posts: 10
Joined: April 19th, 2015, 8:12 pm

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by whitelightning777 »

What happens if you just use the #17 hammer spring and leave the recoil spring on the barrel alone? I understand why you lighten the hammer spring, but what exactly does the recoil spring do when you change it?
robhic
Veteran member
Veteran member
Posts: 502
Joined: April 3rd, 2015, 5:14 pm
Location: Louisiana

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by robhic »

Maybe I was just lucky, but I put 17# hammer springs in 4 P-64 pistols and have not (at least not yet :?: ) had problems with mags dropping out or light strikes. I left the recoil springs as-is except for a 1968 vintage, round-hammer one I put a new 18# (original weight) recoil spring in. I changed the recoil spring in a 1975 pistol, again, with an 18# Wolffe replacement but original weight, nonetheless. I've shot WPA & Wolf, steel-cased ammo. Hornady brass HP along with some PPU HP brass - all without issue. Any problems I've experienced have not (at least not that I can determine) be traced back to the weight of the springs I've used or replaced.

Trigger-pull weight was off the 13 lb trigger gauge the guy at the range had yesterday. He (ex-military) said, as a guess he'd say 15 lbs +/- if he had to guess. Gauge registered about 3 - 3.5 on SA pull. Light but if you're expecting it and are careful, not a problem (to me...).
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
whitelightning777
Junior member
Posts: 10
Joined: April 19th, 2015, 8:12 pm

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by whitelightning777 »

I'm going to try the #18 + 20 lb recoil spring. I also got the firing pin spring in. I got the complete spring set from Wolf springs. Getting the safety knob back in is a real PITA. I was about to go full chimp out and start flinging gun parts and excrement on the walls everywhere.

Even dry firing, the trigger is obviously lighter.

There is this very small pin and spring that must go straight in but no way to line it up. It falls out a lot as well, real easy to lose it. I'm glad I watched those YouTube videos!!
User avatar
gman68w
Member
Member
Posts: 184
Joined: February 27th, 2015, 11:21 pm
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Contact:

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by gman68w »

There's a video here that might be useful. Guy uses the 18# hammer spring and 22# recoil, but doesn't install the firing pin spring.

The recoil springs are bundled with what I'm guessing is a proportionately powered firing pin spring, if I understand the description correctly.

I came here to ask if anyone had any FTF problems with the heavier recoil springs, since I've had a few with the stock springs, but someone answered that with the mention of weak magazine springs.
Jesus sez 'Pack Heat' Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now,
he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
robhic
Veteran member
Veteran member
Posts: 502
Joined: April 3rd, 2015, 5:14 pm
Location: Louisiana

Re: Which Spring is best? 17#, 18#, 19#, 20#??

Post by robhic »

About 3-4 posts above I went into detail about installing 17# hammer springs in all 4 of my P-64 pistols and not having any problems with them. Well, that's changed and I feel I should mention it.

After about 3 weeks, one of the pistols (a 1968 model with rounded hammer - possibly the cause? I don't know) started having intermittent light primer hits. The primers of the steel-cased ammo were dimpled and the round would fire in another gun. Oh well, so much for "no problems with all 4 of my P-64s".... :oops:

So I got an 18# hammer spring as that is said to generally cure the light-strike problem. Since they're cheaper in quantity I ordered the 3-pack from Wolff and decided to change 3 of the pistols to head off future problems just in case. I made a trade for a 19# spring so all of the 4 pistols now have the 17# hammer springs removed.

I only experienced problems with 1 (the oldest, rounded hammer one) and the other 3 triangle-hammer ones were flawless. I just thought it couldn't hurt to maybe head off future problems. The 17# springs worked good. I just feel like I'm hedging my bets with the heavier springs and wanted to add this info for anyone thinking of using a 17# hammer spring.
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
Post Reply