Removing Slide

Mods and Fixes by P-64 users...
dburkott
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Removing Slide

Post by dburkott »

Hi fellas.

I recently replaced the recoil spring and fear that I did not put it on small end first. I tried removing the slide now and it simply will not come off. Trigger guard is in the disassembly position, magazine removed, safety on.

Any tips?
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juniustaylor
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Removing Slide

Post by juniustaylor »

Not sure if it will make much difference, but leave the safety off so that the hammer will stay in the cocked position. Otherwise, the hammer could possibly give you a bit of trouble. Can you pull the slide back for function checks? If you can, then it should be able to be removed.
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dburkott
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Removing Slide

Post by dburkott »

Thanks. I finally got it. I didn't do anything different, other than try it another couple dozen times. Total - about 50!
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juniustaylor
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Removing Slide

Post by juniustaylor »

Awesome, glad you finally got it off. Must have been a bit frustrating.
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Removing Slide

Post by cichlid »

When you recently replaced the recoil spring did you modify it? The ones from Wolf have the last coil that is round. The stock ones last coil is flat. Normally when you replace the stock with a Wolf, you have to modify them a bit. If you did not modify the Wolf spring and got the slide to go on after replacing the spring, that could be why it has been so difficult to get off. Look at the stock one closely and you'll see what I mean.
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Weasel640
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by Weasel640 »

New to the forum.

I am having this same problem. I managed to get the slide on after switching the stock recoil spring for the Wolff spring. I should have read the board first as it looks as if I needed to grind them first for a better fit. Hopefully I'll be able to get the slide off to remedy this. Why is it that Wolff makes springs that don't fit (without mod) the weapons they are designed for?

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Re: Removing Slide

Post by normsutton »

Weasel
all the springs are made the same way , but all of the guns are different
, when I make my trigger return springs I make them so they can be trimmed,

NORM
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N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

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Weasel640
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by Weasel640 »

OK I got the slide off, time to take this Wolff spring to the grinder when I go to work on Monday. This is the way I got it off: Trying to do it by hand was just not working so I did the next best thing. I put on a pair of my snug fitting military type shooting gloves. The gloves gave me the extra textured grip I needed, it came off first try with a slight twist toward the left. I'm glad that is done now. I'll be using the old spring until the Wolff fits better.

One thing that I did notice; while with the odd fitting spring on, it misaligned the slide just enough to cause the safety to NOT decock the P-64 50% of the time. With the original spring back on the decocking action is back to 100%. Just something to keep in mind. Recoil spring fit may affect the decocking action or any other action for that matter.
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by boomer »

Did you change out the firing pin spring with the extra power one that comes with the recoil spring from Wolfe? Did you have the spring on the right way with the narrow end on the barrel facing the breech?
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Weasel640
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by Weasel640 »

boomer wrote:Did you change out the firing pin spring with the extra power one that comes with the recoil spring from Wolfe? Did you have the spring on the right way with the narrow end on the barrel facing the breech?
1) Yes I switched the firing pin spring that comes with the Wolff recoil spring. It installed fine, like I said with the original recoil spring on, the safety/decocker function flawlessly. I think the overall issue was the fact that the Wolff recoil is not ground flush like the original, thus causing misalignment and difficulty with the slide.

2) Yes I had the Wolff spring on the correct direction. I double check the direction of the spring every time I have it off. Again the issue is the new spring needs grinding, this seems to be a common issue with these. I'll get if fixed when I get a chance to use the grinder at work.

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Re: Removing Slide

Post by juniustaylor »

It would seem like an alignment issue. It's hard to determine how though. If the slide and frame fit were excellent, then there's no way it should tweak that much. In my previous reply I had the system description backwards so I am correcting it now. On the safety there is a cutout that allows the disconnector to come up allowing the hammer to remain cocked in the FIRE position. In the SAFE position, the disconnector is pushed into the frame and allows the hammer to fall (decock). So, it seems strange for the spring to tweak it enough to not allow the safety to push the disconnector in the frame to decock the hammer. The disconnector should be in good order, but check it to make sure it is not slightly bent at all or even worn down such that the safety can't push it down enough to allow it to disengage the system. Hopefully grinding the ends on the recoil spring will help remedy this error. Good luck Weasel.

This information is good to know when putting the pistol back together. If your hammer is cocked back and you put the slide on in the SAFE position, the hammer will fall when you attempt to install the slide. I don't know this by doing it myself, it's just system knowledge.
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Weasel640
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by Weasel640 »

juniustaylor,

After you said this I went back and examined those two parts. It seems the both do have some ware. It's odd how one problem could cause a future problem to arise.

If I had never put the un-ground spring on I would have never seen the problem. As it functions flawlessly with the recoil spring fitting correctly, I just have to take steps ie extra gun grease on those points, etc. any other suggestions would be great to.

I really like this little gun I'd like for it to last me a good time. So it'll get all the preventative maintenance it needs.

Weasel

P.S. Any word on those new safeties being manufactured soon? Might as well pick up a couple if available.
Last edited by Weasel640 on March 16th, 2010, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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juniustaylor
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by juniustaylor »

Those spots of wear seem very minute really. Hmmm. Your safety appears to be in pretty good condition. I'll have to give it more thought as to what could possibly cause your decocker function to work 50/50. On your disconnector where your arrow is pointed, that is a little ramp for the safety barrel to ride on so that it can be depressed into the frame to decock the hammer. That more than likely isn't wear. When I remove my slide I cocked my hammer back and pushed the disconnector in until the hammer released (supporting it with a free thumb so it wouldn't slam against the sear plunger and pin). Mine decocked when the top of the disconnector was about 1.5mm or so from the top of the frame. I'd have to try to precisely measure it, but that's using my calibrated eyes. :shock: What year of manufacture is your particular piece?

Some folks report little change when using the heavier spring while others report that it greatly improves the felt recoil. I bought the 20# spring because I was misinformed at the time. I read that the original ammo was some sort of 70-ish grain stuff and the heavier 95 grain ammo would have more recoil, so I bought the spring to keep from tearing the gun up. However, knowing now what I didn't know then, I really didn't need that spring - the 70 something grain ammo never existed. I have not shot the gun with the original spring, I should take it with me the next time I shoot it to see how the recoil feels.

I haven't heard any more word on the safeties and firing pins that Harrington is supposedly making. Guess we'll see when it happens. I would definitely jump on buying an extra firing pin and safety.

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Weasel640
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by Weasel640 »

juniustaylor,

Sorry, those pics were not of my particular P-64, they were ones I found to use as examples of where the wear is. I've removed them to avoid confusion.

Here are some from my P-64. It has substantial holster wear on the finish so I suspect the culprit of the internal wear is years of the previous owner/user loading rounds while on safe. Thus causing the safety cam to violently slam forward into the disconnector.

Here is the wear on the safety cam, just behind the detent notch.
SafetyWearBack.JPG
SafetyWearBack.JPG (36.94 KiB) Viewed 12427 times
Here is the wear on the disconnector.
DisconWearIn.JPG
DisconWearIn.JPG (25.41 KiB) Viewed 12427 times
Lastly here is the spacing (with the slide on, fire selected) between the disconnector and the trigger bar.
DisconSpacing.JPG
DisconSpacing.JPG (46.41 KiB) Viewed 12427 times
It seems to me that there is just over 1mm of distance the disconnector has to travel before engaging the trigger bar. With this travel plus the amount of wear sustained during the service life of this pistol, these two parts will now fail if not lined up just right. Below are some solutions that I think will solve this or prevent it from getting worse.

1) Use as is with steps to prevent further wear ie: make sure these parts are always lubed, and only load rounds on fire, only using safety/decocker while slide will be stationary.

2) Modify the disconnector to close up the distance of travel, plus step one. This could be risky, if not done right it could worsen the action/function.

3) Replace one or both of the worn parts. This ideally would be the best solution however as there is a shortage of parts is less feasible.

For now I'll stick with step one as the pistol functions correctly as long as the recoil spring fits correctly.

Weasel
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Re: Removing Slide

Post by boomer »

There is only one guy who really knows these pistols and that is Norm. Before I would do anything I would consult with him. I am a certified Glock Gunsmith for 14 years now and that does not make me a P 64 expert for 14 seconds. Norm and Dick are the experts without question. Just my two cwnts!
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