P64 Double action issue

Mods and Fixes by P-64 users...
roadweazel
Posts: 8
Joined: June 19th, 2008, 5:10 pm

P64 Double action issue

Post by roadweazel » June 19th, 2008, 5:18 pm

Greetings! New P64 owner from AZ and I'm having the same issue. I've checked it out and she's clean, I'm getting metal shavings at the end of the chamber if I scrape it with a pick or drill bit. The slide just isn't going far enuff forward with a round in the chamber, even if I push it forward.
If I'm correct, this headspaces off the case mouth. My next step is to ream the chamber to about .5 mm deeper than it is right now. I plan on going very slow if I do the reaming, reassembling several times and checking for function.
Any thoughts?
Thanx.
Weazel

User avatar
normsutton
Global moderator
Global moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: February 26th, 2006, 6:59 am
Location: LAKELAND FL.
Contact:

P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » June 19th, 2008, 6:19 pm

Weazel

WELCOME

If you are going to ream the chamber , you need a proper 9x18 chamber reamer


NORM
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

ImageImage

roadweazel
Posts: 8
Joined: June 19th, 2008, 5:10 pm

P64 Double action issue

Post by roadweazel » June 20th, 2008, 3:46 am

Hmmmmmmm... 'No go' on the 10mm ream (same as the case o.d.) even for just a half a milimeter? ???
I'm a mechanic by trade, in more than one field, so I understand how things need to be done properly but the chamber's so loose on these pistols that I figured making the chamber a little deeper wouldn't be an issue.
I originally bought this as a tinkering toy/truck gun, with the hopes of maybe flipping it and making a few bucks. If I need to have it reamed by a gunsmith (or worse yet, buy an expensive ream that I'll never use again) then I may as well sell it as it sits and simply recoup my investment.
Many thanx for the advise.
Weazel
:o
Last edited by roadweazel on June 20th, 2008, 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
normsutton
Global moderator
Global moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: February 26th, 2006, 6:59 am
Location: LAKELAND FL.
Contact:

P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » June 20th, 2008, 6:27 am

roadweazel wrote:Hmmmmmmm... 'No go' on the 10mm ream (same as the case o.d.) even for just a half a milimeter? ???
:o
Image


NORM
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

ImageImage

roadweazel
Posts: 8
Joined: June 19th, 2008, 5:10 pm

P64 Double action issue

Post by roadweazel » June 20th, 2008, 1:38 pm

Understood.
The 10mm ream would be 3.7 thousandths too large at the case mouth...
Crap! Anyone in AZ want a good deal on a nice P-64 with an extra Wolff spring kit and a box and a half of Wolf ammo?
:(
Last edited by roadweazel on June 20th, 2008, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

roadweazel
Posts: 8
Joined: June 19th, 2008, 5:10 pm

P64 Double action issue

Post by roadweazel » June 21st, 2008, 3:15 pm

OK, before I get stupid on this firearm... :(
Could someone measure how much of the case is supposed to protrude from the chamber for me? I just dropped a round of Wolf in the chamber and measured from the 'top' of the chamber/barrel to the end of the round and got .135 inch or 3.43mm.
Is this the same as what y'all are seeing?
Thanx.
Weazel
Image

User avatar
normsutton
Global moderator
Global moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: February 26th, 2006, 6:59 am
Location: LAKELAND FL.
Contact:

P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » June 21st, 2008, 4:09 pm

Weazel


nice pix




Image

Image


you might want to mic. the diameter of the bullet if its over .364 the rifling is stopping it


NORM
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

ImageImage

roadweazel
Posts: 8
Joined: June 19th, 2008, 5:10 pm

P64 Double action issue

Post by roadweazel » June 21st, 2008, 4:40 pm

Damn, Norm, you DA MAN :-*
Thank you ever so much for your willingness to help.
I'm getting exactly .364 inch across the projectile and I can see little tiny rifling marks where the nose is being pushed into the grooves and lands. OAL is .979 inch.
I'd hate to buy another box of ammo for a gun that doesn't (and still might not) work but that may be my next step.
Thanx again.
Weazel

User avatar
normsutton
Global moderator
Global moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: February 26th, 2006, 6:59 am
Location: LAKELAND FL.
Contact:

P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » June 21st, 2008, 4:46 pm

Weazel

If you buy ammo don't buy any over a 95 grn bullet. and sure a hell don't recommend wolf ammo at all

NORM
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

ImageImage

garry
Veteran member
Veteran member
Posts: 598
Joined: October 22nd, 2006, 7:45 am
Location: Grandview, Missouri

P64 Double action issue

Post by garry » June 21st, 2008, 5:37 pm

Roadweazel, That is a neat grip. what kind is it? It looks as tho it is sticking up high enough to "rub" the slide . Is this a photo illusion? The Wolf MC ball ammo I have measures 1.01" OAL. It is actually longer than your ammo and It shoots fine in mine. Thanks and Good luck !

3rdpig
Junior member
Posts: 31
Joined: June 21st, 2008, 5:49 pm
Location: Arizona

P64 Double action issue

Post by 3rdpig » June 21st, 2008, 7:26 pm

Greetings, new guy here. I bought a P-64 about 4 hours ago and it's doing the same thing mentioned in this thread. It's fine without a round in the chamber, but with a round in the chamber and hammer down the gun will not work in DA mode. I took the grips off and observed the mechanism, and the disconnector is holding the trigger bar so that it can't connect with the hammer notch. Upon looking closely it appears that the gun is just a tiny amount out of battery. This is with Wolf black box ammo. A round drops easily into the chamber and seems to bottom on the case mouth, there are no marks on the bullets and the round is not tight into the chamber.

Unfortunately the Wolf is the only 9x18 ammo I have on hand and it's now 5pm on Saturday, so I'm not getting any more to test tonight and probably not till Monday. The gun was very clean when I received it and I've inspected and cleaned it again. I can see no reason for it not to go fully into battery. The case length on the Wolf ammo measures at .703", which is well under max.

Sure seems like it would make a sweet little pocket pistol so I'd like to solve the problem and get it working rather than take it back to the gun store for a refund.

Edited to add: Just for sport and amusement I pulled a bullet out of one of the Wolf cartridges and loaded the primed, empty case into the gun, shut the slide and pulled the trigger. It fired. So apparently the gun is going far enough into battery to fire in SA mode, but not enough to engage the trigger bar in DA mode. I also took a jewelers file and smoothed off the bottom of the cartridge case and around the rim, which made no difference. Seems to me, since it's a blowback gun, that adjusting the disconnector is the easiest solution since the gun is fully closing on the loaded round. The amount it's not closing with a round in the chamber is probably .020" or so.
Last edited by 3rdpig on June 21st, 2008, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
normsutton
Global moderator
Global moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: February 26th, 2006, 6:59 am
Location: LAKELAND FL.
Contact:

P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » June 21st, 2008, 8:14 pm

3rdpig

welcome

the only 2 other things I can think of right now without seeing the guns in my hands is that you need to feed the round form the mag. not just put one in the chamber and let the slide go forward, and the spring on the extractor needs to cleaned out real good and oiled,( take the extractor out it comes out just like the Pa-63 does)


http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=1586


or you can call me tomorrow

phone # is in this tread
http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=1822


NORM
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

ImageImage

3rdpig
Junior member
Posts: 31
Joined: June 21st, 2008, 5:49 pm
Location: Arizona

P64 Double action issue

Post by 3rdpig » June 21st, 2008, 9:03 pm

Norm, thanks for the reply. It doesn't make any difference if I load from the mag or by hand or whether the bullet is in the case or not. I've even tried smacking the back of the slide with a small plastic mallet, it's not going any further into battery with a case in the chamber. If I shorten the case length to .695, the problem goes away. I tried taking a fine jewelers file and cleaning all the burrs off from around the disconnector and trigger bar, but that wasn't enough to affect the engagement, or lack thereof, of the trigger bar onto the hammer notch and at this point I'm unwilling to take any real amounts of metal off those parts.

I'm going to take a further look at the slide/disconnector area and see if there's not something affecting travel. Other than that and case length, I'm temporarily at a loss unless the chamber is just a few thousands too short. I even considered that somewhere alone the line the gun was rebarreled in .380 ACP, but a .355 bullet will easily pass through the barrel.

3rdpig
Junior member
Posts: 31
Joined: June 21st, 2008, 5:49 pm
Location: Arizona

P64 Double action issue

Post by 3rdpig » June 21st, 2008, 10:52 pm

Well I called a friend of mine who lives a few miles away and he had a box of S&B 9x18. So I drove over with the gun and it displayed the same problem as with the Wolf ammo. Upon arriving home I carefully took the same measurement that Weazel and Norm did above and mine actually reads a few thousandths less. The chamber is squeeky cleen. The round is going fully into the chamber and seating on the rim of the case, of that there is no doubt. I checked with empty and loaded cases with the exact same results.

I also carefully checked the breech face, it's clean, there are no burrs and a cartridge case sits flat against it. With a case in the chamber the slide cannot be moved further forward, even with a plastic mallet. This tells me the round is seated against the rim in the chamber and the breechface is fully up against the rear of the cartridge. The gun is fully in battery despite the fact that it's not quite as far forward as it is without a cartridge in the chamber. This makes sense since a blow back gun doesn't lock up, so you want the breech face tight against the rear of the cartridge upon ignition, to guarantee this the slide stop has to be a few thousandths forward of battery to take into account differing case lengths. At least, it makes sense to me and my PA-63 shows the same thing, the slide is back about .020 more with a round in the chamber than it is with the chamber empty.

The problem now is either the dimension between the cavity in the safety that the top of the disconnector rides in and the trigger bar is too short, or the disconnector is too long. I also removed the safety and checked to make sure there are no burrs or foreign matter affecting it where the disconnector seats. So to correct this I carefully filed the bottom of the disconnector to give it a slight bevel where it rides on the trigger bar. I probably removed .030" of metal off the corner nearest the rear of the gun. I blasted the filings out with brakleen, lubed and reassembled the gun, function tested it and it now works fine.

I'm betting these guns were originally hand fitted and there were some parts changes or guns that were cannabalized at some time or another were put together with later model parts so they could be sold and they were never properly function tested.

User avatar
normsutton
Global moderator
Global moderator
Posts: 3558
Joined: February 26th, 2006, 6:59 am
Location: LAKELAND FL.
Contact:

P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » June 22nd, 2008, 4:23 am

3rdpig

I know some have had parts switch I had a chance to buy a 1964 but didn't because it had a triangular hammer on it.and knew somebody had fooled with it

NORM
NORMSUTTON@AOL.COM
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER 1976

ImageImage

Post Reply