P64 Double action issue

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tjason
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P64 Double action issue

Post by tjason » March 10th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Howdy,
I Bought my P-64 second hand. I like it except for one problem.
DA works fine without a round (dry fire) but not with the chamber full of 9X18 Winchester brass.
The problem is that the slide isn't home yet and the interupter is preventing the proper trigger arm-hammer connection (I believe).
I tried it with ~EMPTY~ shells in 9mm mak and .380ACP calibers. The .380 will chamber (being slightly shorter) and the slide is all the way home, allowing the Double Action pull to work. I'm guessing the fix is to lengthen the chamber or fix the barrel in the correct place. I think mucking about with the interupter would be a poor idea allowing slam fire or full automatic operation. Fixing the chamber or barrel is beyond my amateur smithing ablities. <sigh>
Does anyone else have these symptoms and have you found a soloution? How much would this cost to be fixed by a professional smith?

Thanks,

TJ.

PS.
I'm not responsible for any mistakes/misinterpretations/holes you may make from reading this note. 8)

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normsutton
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P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » March 10th, 2008, 3:28 pm

Jason

welcome


did you clean the gun if not take the slide and the grips off , 99% of the time its because you haven't gotten all the Cosmolin out

NORM
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tjason
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P64 Double action issue

Post by tjason » March 10th, 2008, 4:05 pm

Thanks for the welcome Norm. :)

I bought it second hand so it was pretty well cleaned up as I got it. It has no unusual marks or blemishes that I can see. I have pulled off the grips and slide multiple times since I found this problem. Also, I have put an 18 pound hammer spring in from the Wolf kit, although I don't think that is related to the problem.
The single action works fine oddly enough. Even with the slide 1- 1.5 mm out of battery. The issue only occurs with DA. The trigger lever does connect with the hammer but not deep enough, then as you pull the geometry of the trigger lever and the interupter pushes it out of the notch before the hammer is at full stroke. Like I said in the first post if I chamber an empty .380 round all is swell, except the .380 round rattles around in the chamber because it's the wrong diameter. (For a short while I thought I had a .380 barrel) I will carefully and thorougly brush out the chamber tonight. Perhaps there is some shaved bullet lead riding there.

Can you tell me how difficult it would be to move the barrel/chamber to the correct position? Or is that even possible?

Thanks for your help!

TJ

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normsutton
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P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » March 10th, 2008, 4:19 pm

TJ
can you give me a call my phone No. is in this theard

http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... 1179953781
then I may be able to help you out more
NORM
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donnerwetter58
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P64 Double action issue

Post by donnerwetter58 » March 10th, 2008, 4:31 pm

I just measured the chamber depth on one I have here. Using a dial caliper, I measure .572 inches to the shoulder in the chamber.
It would be nice to eliminate the ammo by trying another brand.
Check the extractor and make sure it is free and riding over the case rim.

tjason
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P64 Double action issue

Post by tjason » March 10th, 2008, 10:04 pm

I really appreciate the help folks. 8)

The empty 9x18 win mak cases measure (length);
1 .701
2 .700
3 .699
4 .701
5 .699

The .380 acp measure;
1 .661
2 .665

The chamber from face to ridge is approx .569- .570.
It was difficult (!) to hold in my lap and measure.

With the empty .700 case in the chamber I can SA fire but, DA only moves the hammer a short way before letting it fall. With this case in the chamber the slide and frame misalign (out of battery) by just enough to catch my thumb nail. There isn't a flat there to allow measurement, and it's at the wrong angle but .001 is what I get.

Gun empty, it SA and DA dry fires normally.

I wonder if someone were to do this with an ~empty~ 9x19 para case in a normal working P64 if it would behave like mine.

With the .665 length case in the chamber, it allows full DA Hammer travel and full strength fall. The slide and frame are flush.

The extractor seems ok if a little weak. The empties are flung 15-20 yards. There are brass markings on the extractor and slide face from use. The fired bass is unmarked except for a ding on the rear face of the hull from the slide hold off/ejector. The are no recoil spring rub marks on the outside of the barrel.
I'm guessing the barrel was replaced then checked via dry fire only.

Can I post pictures here? There is some roughness, burrs on the face of the chamber. The head spacing ridge appears clean however. The was no jamming or stove pipes in SA mode (6 rounds).

Is the barrel press fit and then pinned or screwed into place?

Any help and or ideas welcome.

Norm I'll ring you from work tomorrow around noon e.t. if that's ok.

Thank You for the help gentlemen.

Regards,
TJ

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barnett3006
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P64 Double action issue

Post by barnett3006 » March 10th, 2008, 11:16 pm

Welcome to the forum Tjason,

I have to agree with Norm about the gun being clean. There very well could be dirt and cosmoline built up on the internals of your gun. If there is grit build up in the notches on the sear then that could be why the hammer is falling early in DA mode (SA has its own notch in the sear). Grit in these areas would be near impossible to see without a complete disassembly of the gun.

I thought my P64 was clean until I soaked it in acetone for an hour, I had about a pound of old cosmoline and dirt come out of the action. :'( After the soaking and a proper lube job, the trigger pull on my gun has never been smoother.

As far as the slide on your gun being out of battery enough to catch your thumb nail on the rail; mine does that to and I've never had a problem with it and I don't believe this to be "out of battery". Now if it is more than this then the burrs on the chamber face could be your problem, also check the breech face for burrs/flatness. Check the loaded chamber indicator and make sure that it moves freely, it to could be hanging up when the chamber is loaded and preventing the slide from going into battery.

The barrel is pressed in and pinned.

You can post pictures but you have to use a hosting site to do so, I use photobucket.com

Good luck, I hope you get her runnin good soon.
Last edited by barnett3006 on March 10th, 2008, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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normsutton
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P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » March 11th, 2008, 5:44 am

TJ
I should be there
Image

Image

Image

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normsutton
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P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » March 11th, 2008, 5:59 am

TJ

I have seen this in a sks never in a pistol ,but it could be lacquer build up from shooting lacquer steel shells , take the slide off clean the chamber with acetone on a bore brush

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rmeron
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P64 Double action issue

Post by rmeron » March 11th, 2008, 8:01 am

Will soaking the pistol in acetone ruin the bluing??????????????

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normsutton
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P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » March 11th, 2008, 8:58 am

Will soaking the pistol in acetone ruin the bluing??????????????
no
but it will take the red dot off



NORM
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tjason
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P64 Double action issue

Post by tjason » March 11th, 2008, 10:54 am

Sorry to dissapoint but I solved the problem by taking it back to my dealer. It was purchased less than ten days ago and he refunded my purchase. He even gave me full credit for the half box of ammo.

A scholar and a gentleman. Maine Military Supply. Brewer Maine.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Terry

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blinddog
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P64 Double action issue

Post by blinddog » March 11th, 2008, 11:02 am

Thats some kind of good info guys. That makes me want to re-clean my '68. I have been having problems with it since I bought it. Maybe I just thought I had it clean!!! My slide on recoil will sometimes go past the slide stop and lock it up. Have to bump it with a rubber mallet. Otherwise all good> :-X

jeebus
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P64 Double action issue

Post by jeebus » April 21st, 2008, 8:58 pm

hey all, new guy here...came for this exact reason myself. I always clean the p-64 well, but it is now a SA only weapon when loaded. When it is cleared however, it is fine. I'm the "care-taker" for my father and my combined extensive weapons collection and this is his conceal and carry gun so I'd like to get it back to 100 %. I'm interested in taking it completely apart and changing out the springs for something better to aid trigger-pull and fix this issue. however, i do not know how to take the thing apart. I see you have an assembly pdf available but no disassembly. If someone could direct me to a disassembly manual and the best springs to smoothen up the trigger pull I'd be greatful. Thanks

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normsutton
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P64 Double action issue

Post by normsutton » April 22nd, 2008, 4:49 am

jeebus
you can take it apart from this manual too
(assembly pdf )

NORM
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