P64 spring questions

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » October 5th, 2006, 12:44 am

I found this great site by accident, Im glad I did. I've been carrying my p64 for awhile now, and I shoot it at the range almost everytime I go to the range. I've been wanting to get a stronger recoil spring for it to reduce the "slap" from the trigger guard. For range shooting generally I go with what my range has to offer, which is Wolf 100 gners to 109 gners; for carry I use the Hornady 95 grn XTP loads.

Somewhere in these pages PshootR said he uses a modified H&K P-7 25# recoil spring from Wolff. My question is what exactly was the modification to the spring? Also, will the Walther PPK recoil springs fit in the P64? What is the factory spring rating?

I am probably gong to change the factory main spring to the Wolff PPK 20#er, but I havent decided yet.

Has anyone tried the Custom Cartridge loadings in their P64?

https://www.customcartridge.com/order/l ... ion=Search

If you guys have answered any of my questions before, please just post the link to the thread...no sense in repeating yourselves.

Thanks

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » October 5th, 2006, 1:09 am

barnett3006,

Let me be the first to say welcome to the forum! It is a really unique, knowledgeable and friendly place. There are experts that will be answering your spring questions soon, so come around often.

bZinggg.

Post by **normsutton** » October 5th, 2006, 5:04 am

BARNETT 3006

WELCOME

the recoil spring fix is on this page

http://p64.home.insightbb.com/fixes.htm

factory spring rating for the p-64 is about 25 # maybe more

you should be fine with 20# spring just don't go below the 18#

NORM

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » October 9th, 2006, 10:19 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome bZinggg.

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » October 9th, 2006, 10:38 pm

I had a thought today about the straight blow-back design of the p64. I was wondering if anyone had tried cutting a shallow grove or two (or three) around the inside diameter of the chamber converting it from straight blow-back to delayed blow-back. This would significantly reduce the speed of the slide as it recoiled.

I've read about a few pistols and submachine guns that use this chamber design but I dont remember what they were.

I dont ever plan on trying this, just curious if someone else had.

pshootr · Post by **pshootr** » October 10th, 2006, 4:51 pm

The Seecamp LWS .32 uses this design, for one. The trouble with trying it is that you'd ruin a barrel if it didn't work, and there ain't no more to be had. I think the Russians experimented with this system in 9x19 Makarovs they built. If someone wants to try it I'd recommend using a Mak as a test mule. You can find Mak barrels pretty cheap I believe.

rjsixgun · Post by **rjsixgun** » October 11th, 2006, 8:56 am

I found the 16lbs spring to be a little on the light side, so I checked the wolf web site to find out that the standard PPK spring is 20lbs. I dont own a PPK, but I do own a CZ-75 and I love the trigger pull, so I checked to see what its spring was rated at............20lbs according to wolf springs. So I guess if a 20lbs spring is good enough for a CZ and Walter, it should be good for a Random.

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » October 11th, 2006, 12:45 pm

The design of different pistols involves parts of different lengths and angles and therefore, consists of different rates of leverage, sometimes the same, but often different, so that the strength rating of a particular spring might not translate to the same weight of trigger pull on different pistols. The RADOM P-64 and the WALTHER PPK seem to share characteristics that make the spring in question produce a similar result when installed in either pistol, which was discovered by various members and other P-64 owners by trial and error. So, reading and following others' advice, especially when there is a consensus of opinion on the application of a particular part, is a good policy when modifying a firerarm, in general, though variations in results per particular piece may be expected, on occasion.

rjsixgun · Post by **rjsixgun** » October 14th, 2006, 3:43 pm

well my new wolf spring came in today.......#20. Personally I like it much better than the #16. I found the 16 just to light of a trigger and I just didnt feel safe with such a hair trigger for carry. But the 20 is just like my CZ-75 utterly perfect! The 20 is the same as the Standard PPK and CZ-75 trigger!!!!!!!!!!! To each his own though, some guys like a hair trigger, Hell my .44 Rem has one, but thats a match gun not a carry gun. If I ever have to use my gun in a defensive manner I dought I'll notice the trigger pull.

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » October 17th, 2006, 11:55 pm

So, I got the HK 25# spring and the Walther 20# spring. I just did the recoil spring mod and noticed the gun makes lots of noise when I rack the slide from the spring rubbing the inside of the slide. Did you guys open up the inside of the slide any to remedy this problem, or do you just keep it lubed real well and let it rub?

I havent done the mainspring swap yet, I actually kinda like the heavy DA pull. Im gonna go to the range in the next couple of days to see how the recoil spring works...I'll post a range report.

Post by **normsutton** » October 18th, 2006, 5:04 am

barnett3006

DON'T CUT ANTHING ON SLIDE

just lightly grease the barrel and slide

NORM

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » October 22nd, 2006, 1:39 am

I got to the range today to try out my new recoil spring in my '72. I fired Hornady 95 gr. XTP's, American Eagle 95 gr. FMJ's, Wolf 100 gr. FMJ's and Silver Bear 115 gr. HP's. With the factory spring, the 100 gr. loads would have been the heaviest I could shoot with minimal "trigger guard slap." Now I can shoot the 115 gr. loads all day without any "slap" at all; the only "slap" I got was from the 95 gr. American Eagle loads, which were hot enough to cause the cases to bulge slightly. The slap I got from the American Eagle loads wasnt enough to hurt my middle finger, only enough to cause the trigger guard hinge pin to work itself out (I caught it at about one-third the way out). All in all I am very pleased with the results and the factory spring has retired to my box of unused gun springs.

P.S. Does anyone know what kind of laquer is used to seal the case mouths and primers on ammo?

pshootr · Post by **pshootr** » October 22nd, 2006, 2:44 am

I noticed the "zingy - springy" spring sound of the modified H&K P-7 recoil spring too. Here is how I fitted mine and eliminated most of it:
The H&K 25# recoil spring had exactly 17 coils as it came from Wolff, including the end coils.
Directions from Wolff said to fit the tight end on the barrel, but when slid onto the P-64 barrel either end was loose.
Laying first one, then the other end of the new recoil spring inside the slide, I noticed that one end was a tighter fit than the other. The tighter fitting end is the end which I cut off.
Trial fitting the remaining spring, I found that exactly 10 coils, including the remaining flattened end coil, were the maximum number which would allow reassembly of the pistol.
This resulted in a workable, but distinctly "zingy" sounding pistol.
Next I held the spring flat on a new piece of 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper and pushed it back and forth while periodically rolling it with my palm until the outside of the coils began to appear just SLIGHTLY flattened.
Next I completely polished all sides of the coils to a high shine with fine sandpaper followed by ScotchBrite.
Finally, a light coating of Tetra gun grease went on the outside of the barrel, inside of the slide and the spring.
Then I installed my new spring with the cut end going on the barrel first and with the cut at the 6 o'clock (bottom) position. Do not put the cut at the 9 to 12 o'clock position. The open end can work its way out thru the ejection port and jam things up.
End result: No more "zingy - springy" sound when I rack the slide and no undue contact wear marks on the inside of the slide.

So, I got the HK 25# spring and the Walther 20# spring. I just did the recoil spring mod and noticed the gun makes lots of noise when I rack the slide from the spring rubbing the inside of the slide. Did you guys open up the inside of the slide any to remedy this problem, or do you just keep it lubed real well and let it rub?

I haven't done the mainspring swap yet, I actually kinda like the heavy DA pull. I'm gonna go to the range in the next couple of days to see how the recoil spring works...I'll post a range report.

goldsmith · Post by **goldsmith** » December 6th, 2006, 8:17 pm

Re: Sands' recoil spring fix.

Just tried this with the P7 spring. Am I correct in thinking that this will fit better with the open end at the breach end of the barrel? I noted that one writer did this with the end at the six o'clock position. This seems to fit best in my P-64, and seems to reduce felt recoil. I did notice a horizontal "rub" line along most of the length of the barrel at first fitting, and removed about 1/2 coil in the event this was evidence of coil bind. Reliable so far, although only a few rounds. Thanks for the great advise. I had made reduced power hammer springs for two P-64's from a Wolff bulk spring pack (slightly larger coil diameter, slightly smaller wire diameter, one, 2 coils longer than stock, one, 4 coils longer, & no bind). I have come to share the concern of others that reducing the hammer spring power also sufficiently reduces the resistance to initial slide movement, that there is a risk of the slide overcoming the recoil spring and "battering" against the frame. The new recoil spring seems to address this.

Thanks again.

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