P-64 Variant?

Mods and Fixes by P-64 users...
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novgarod
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P-64 Variant?

Post by novgarod » January 21st, 2006, 8:18 pm

I just got back from the Raleigh Gun Show with a new P-64, and it caught my eye like a magnet because it was different.

It was a 1968 round hammer, but the safety lever and extractor were richly plum in color, maybe more so than seen on two Bulgie Maks I own. This color, as I understand, is due to a different heat tempering than used on the rest of the gun. It is really striking. Secondly, this CZAK has a decent DA! This pistol has not been fired and shows no evidence of being reworked. What a find, with two clips, all for $149.95! ;D

I bought it from Classic Arms - they only brought two P-64s, mine, and a 1974 triangular hammer with the usual stiff DA. The guy in the booth said they didn't have any chrome ones available. Saw another '74 triangular at another booth, but no varigated colors.

Anyone else noticed this variation in color on their CZAKs?
If so, dates and hammer type?

mikethewreck
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P-64 Variant?

Post by mikethewreck » January 21st, 2006, 10:49 pm

My 1976 third variation has a plum colored slide (in contrast to the more black slide of my '67). It seems to show more wear than my '67.

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abwehr
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P-64 Variant?

Post by abwehr » January 22nd, 2006, 7:36 am

Well guys, I can help with the "plum color" question. I was/am a collector of Lugers and P.38 pistols. The WWII Luger and many P.38 parts will have Plum Color parts.

This is caused by the material being somewhat "harder" than the rest of the parts. In bluing, the temperature, concentration of the solution, type steel, cleaning procedures, and hardness all have an effect on the bluing. Since these are Military weapons, they were being made in large batches and all blued to a certain specification for the process.

Most of the parts will blue fine and be consistant, but one factor can't be taken into account...... that is "work hardening" the metal. When a part is made, it should have certain feeds and speeds for the material and the cutter being used. If the operator cuts too fast for the cutter, the speed of the cutter is forced, the part gets hotter than normal. When it gets hotter, the coolant will actually "harden" the steel slightly on the surface. This does not hurt the part, but when bluing, the bluing solution (or the bluing guys) do not take this change into account, and you get a change in the surface color....a Plum Color. According to the different hardness of the part, you get varying shades in the Plum Color. They range from a slight reddish tint to a really Plum Color. Now, with that said, if the heat treater hardens the part more than specifications, or changes HIS process, this can cause a change in the bluing color because the bluing process needed to be modified. LIke the Safely Lever that broke. I bet this part was Plum Colored and the steel had an "inclusion". The heat treating would have weakend the inclusion and caused the part to break. There are many factors that come into play, and as long as the part is blued to protect it, it works.

I like the Plum Color on Military pistols, but I would not want it on a commercial pistol as it shows a lack of quality control from the maufacturer to control his entire process.

mongo
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P-64 Variant?

Post by mongo » January 22nd, 2006, 12:43 pm

I have noticed small dimples ala CZ-52 on various parts of the pistol to check hardness. Perhaps there was a run of parts that were not hardened correctly and they simply ran them through again?

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P-64 Variant?

Post by novgarod » January 22nd, 2006, 2:07 pm

Thanks, abwehr, for the info on heat treating and bluing effects. Hopefully, my purchase yesterday will only have harder, not more brittle, parts and just becomes a pretty variant and not a defective pistol - only time at the range will find out. I only shoot the 95 grain ball, so I won't be pushing the pressure and extraction envelopes.

I am not sorry for the purchase, however; now have both hammer types and the latest CZAK sure is the prettier of the two - she might be delicate, but much easier to squeeze!
Last edited by novgarod on January 29th, 2006, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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abwehr
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P-64 Variant?

Post by abwehr » January 22nd, 2006, 3:00 pm

Mongo,

Since I come from a manufacturing background for parts from FN machinegun parts, all type gearing, to aerospace parts, the "dimples" are from a Rockwell "C" Scale hardness tester. Most parts are not 100% checked, but a certain percentage are pulled at randon and tested. Those with the "dimple" were the parts tested.

If a part is critical and requires tight control on heat treating, they will check each part. I would assume most firearms manufacturers do the same.

novgarod,

Not to worry, the Plum Parts are probably some of the best you can get. I love the difference in color too. As long as you stay with standard ammo, you should have no pressure problems!

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