Safety dropping on while shooting

Mods and Fixes by P-64 users...
erehwesle
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by erehwesle » December 5th, 2005, 9:14 pm

I had this problem once or twice at the range yesterday. Anyone have a fix to tighten up the safety? I've heard of this from a couple other places, and I know some others on the board have complained about it. So what do we think?

It could be that I wasn't pushing the safety all the way up (it seems to make a little click) and in any event, I usually just had to take it off and then fire double action and was back in business, but I had once where the slide didn't go back into battery all the way which concerned me. I had to cycle the slide, and expel the unfired round to fire again.

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dfunk
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by dfunk » December 5th, 2005, 9:46 pm

I have heard that some users report engaging the saftey with their supporting hands on accident when a shot was fired. As far as tightening it up, this would probably be a good question for saands to answer, as I know he has taken his off before.

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abwehr
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by abwehr » December 6th, 2005, 7:28 am

Yea, I would like to know how or what type "detent" is used for the safety. Just thinking, I would have thought there was spring/plunger used for the detent. Maybe I was wrong about this. I hope "saands" lets us know what it looks like.

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raypol
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by raypol » December 6th, 2005, 10:08 am

There was a thread on this on the Makarov forum before there was a P64 forum. Go to Gunboards Makarov forum and do a search on P64 safety and you will probably find your answer. In general, there is a detent in the hammer bar that is not deep enough and needs to be ground out a little deeper. It is fixable.

jpb

saands
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by saands » December 7th, 2005, 11:48 am

I don't check this forum every day :P ... but I'm not ignoring the questions ;)

The P64 safety has a plunger that looks like a drill bit without the flutes. It is about 1/4" long (maybe a little shorter) and probably a 1/16" diameter with a sharp tapered cone on the end that engages the detent in the safety. The detents in the safety lever are shaped like cats eyes. If the safety is too easy to move there are 3 possible reasons that I can think of.
1. The point on the cone is missing/worn on your plunger
2. The Cats Eyes on the lever are worn
... it would seem odd that either of these were the case.
3. The plunger spring is weaker than it should be for some reason. This seems like a possible to me.
4. The plunger was inserted backwards so that the point is not engaging the detent ... possible, I guess, but tough to do if you were thinking at ALL while doing it.
5. The plunger travel is being limited by crap that has gotten into the mechanism and so it is just barely engaging the detent.

I said there were 3, I know ... but I got to thinking.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my chips down on #5 ...

SAFETY LEVER REMOVAL:

1. Make sure that the pistol is unloaded and put on your safety glasses.
2. Field strip the P64
3. With the slide off of the frame you rotate the safety up to the FIRE position.
4. With a skinny tool (I like 0.050" hex keys for this), push the firing pin in past the safety. (note: the firing pin is what keeps the safety securely in the pistol)
5. While the FP is clear of the safety, use a screwdriver to gently move the safety to the side with the lever (pistol's left side when in use).
6. Watch VERY carefully as the detent plunger and detent plunger spring and firing pin and FP spring leave the slide in a HURRY! You need ALL FOUR PART, so don't stop looking for them until you find them!
7. Clean the daylights out of the FP channel and the safety mechanism as you won't have this opportunity that often.

Putting this back together is very possible ... but don't expect to be able to do it with your eyes closed and don't expect it to take 45 seconds :o

If you need help, just ask ... but please be patient as I don't check in daily.

Good luck,

Saands

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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by novgarod » December 10th, 2005, 11:13 pm

I went to the range with my 1975 P-64 for the first time today. I shot the first 6 rounds single action (~3-4 lbs pull) at 7 yds within 2-1/4", 1-1/2" if you drop one; it is accurate and it cycled well with S&B 95 gr FMJ. After shooting 1/2 box I moved to Wolff steel 100 gr FMJ (truncated cone; copper clad) and had periodic problems (every full mag) with the slide failing to go to full battery and, at other times, the trigger acting like the safety was engaged - thus the reason for joining in on this thread. This P-64 just didn't like the Wolff, i.e., it didn't feel solid in my hand like with the S&B. I still shot up the box of Wolff and then went back to the S&B - no problems once again. By the way, I had polished the ramp prior to shooting and the pistol cycled thru both full mags well.

I have the spring pak from Wolff (16,17,18 &19#), but I am not ready to modify yet. I will shoot several more boxes (different brands) thru it to better characterize the weapon. I shot it double action once and had to walk to the target to see if I even hit it - yes, barely, about 12" from the bull. I couldn't bring myself to do it again! How can the single action be so smooth and the double action be such a dog? I had to feel it for myself - 'why such a design?' keeps going thru my head.

I watched/tried the mechanical reason for the clicking on the safety as mentioned by erehwesle in this/his thread, but I could not get any consistency in returning the pistol to firing mode. To keep this report positive, the pistol does act reliably when it gets ammo it likes . . . more later.

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abwehr
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by abwehr » December 11th, 2005, 6:34 am

I have only shot Wolf in mine and so far so good. Although I do feel S&B probably has better QA than Wolf, but weapons are like people. They may look similar, but their "appetite" is different. It has always puzzled me that one pistol will shoot hollowpoints and another identical pistol will consistantly jam with them.

I have a Walther P-22 and G-22 that will eat anything I put into them, but I have read that others with the same weapons can only get certain brands of ammo to shoot reliably in them. THis has always puzzled me. Do you guys have other pistols that are "ammo brand" sensative?

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dfunk
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by dfunk » December 11th, 2005, 11:11 am

My S&W SW9VE really likes Blazer ammo of any type as well as any other CCI made ammunition. It dislikes Winchester white box, but will eat Federal all day. ?

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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by bkbrno » December 11th, 2005, 12:41 pm

Mine did this. The problem was the spring that holds the detent. The spring was kinked and not holding properly. It took about five minutes to fix but you need a selection of springs to find the right one. The gunsmith at my local shop fixed it so I don't know exactly which spring he used other than it was a generic Brownells spring cut to fit.

Putting the safety assembly back together, it is easy to see how the spring got crimped originally. It takes four hands get everything in place. No problems since the repair. If your safety/decock lever is stiff and or crunches when operated, there is a good chance the spring is bad.

erehwesle
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by erehwesle » March 31st, 2006, 2:05 am

THis is my marjor problem with the P-64. I'm going to +1 this old post in the hope that anyone else has the same trouble.

any idea without a gunsmith how to fix this problem?

and Sannds, HELP!

Please.
Last edited by erehwesle on March 31st, 2006, 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

p64
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by p64 » March 31st, 2006, 4:20 am

I have the same problem with the safety.
My p64 doesn't like the s&b fmj but fires golden sabres no problem (except for the safety)
Recoil is horrendous, much worse than my .45.

Guess a trip to my gunsmith is in the works. It is an ez gun to carry but I want to pull the trigger and have it go boom without playing w the safety for a carry gun. Will probably get new recoil spring also, maybe that's why recoil is so bad

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abwehr
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by abwehr » March 31st, 2006, 6:08 am

This photo was posted on the Forum several months back as what the Safety Lever, Spring and Dettent look like. I thought I would post it again as it may help someone.

Image
Last edited by abwehr on March 31st, 2006, 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by p64 » April 9th, 2006, 4:05 pm

I have only shot Wolf in mine and so far so good. Although I do feel S&B probably has better QA than Wolf, but weapons are like people. They may look similar, but their "appetite" is different. It has always puzzled me that one pistol will shoot hollowpoints and another identical pistol will consistantly jam with them.

I have a Walther P-22 and G-22 that will eat anything I put into them, but I have read that others with the same weapons can only get certain brands of ammo to shoot reliably in them. THis has always puzzled me. Do you guys have other pistols that are "ammo brand" sensative?
Yes! Mine likes Fiocchi FMJ and Hornady HP but jams, misfires and fails to eject with the S&B.

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abwehr
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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by abwehr » May 2nd, 2006, 5:43 am

steve98664,

The little spring and detent should hold the safety in place, even with hot ammo. I have never experienced this happening, but check the detent and spring to make sure they are properly in-place. While you have it out, put a little dab of grease on the detent and the safety barrel. This will make the movement smoother. Hopefully you can get this rectified, Keep us posted on what you find.

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Safety dropping on while shooting

Post by stibnite » June 8th, 2006, 4:20 pm

I thought I'd bring this up to the top; my new 1975 P-64 was displaying the same behavior today :'(

When I rotate my safety lever to "FIRE", it needs to be rotated AS FAR AS IT WILL GO to positively engage the detent, and then it seems really weak, at that. Not all shots caused the safety to slip downwards, just occasionally, there was no pattern that I saw. S&B 95 gr FMJ. I guess I have some exploratory work to do.

Steve, have you been to the range yet?

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