Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

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robhic
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Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by robhic » July 22nd, 2015, 5:51 pm

I found this one left me scratching my head. I have 2 P64's that were giving me double-feed jamming problems. I went over the mags and cleaned them plus polishing the chamber and feed ramp. Didn't fix the problem AND I got some failure to return to battery in one. Hmmmm........

So I put a 20# recoil spring in that one (started with 18 pounders -new- in both) and battery problem got better. This was baffling. So, just for the heck of it, I had some Silver Bear and Wolf WPA ammo with me and decided to swap ammo. (was using the Silver Bear to start.) Both, besides color zinc vs. grey and lacquer-coated, were 95gr JRN bullet. More-or-less same ammo, different package. But it worked! :shock:

They both shot about flawlessly with the WPA and the one pistol shot both pretty consistently. This is weird. All in same 4 magazines between both pistols. I suppose I'll just be using WPA in the future, just in case.
- Robert

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by gman68w » July 24th, 2015, 2:06 pm

That is odd. Usually its the steel-cased ammo that has the most problems, not expanding quickly enough to prevent debris from griming up the chamber. What about Brown Bear, had any issues with that?
Jesus sez 'Pack Heat' Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now,
he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

robhic
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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by robhic » July 24th, 2015, 7:21 pm

gman68w wrote:That is odd. Usually its the steel-cased ammo that has the most problems, not expanding quickly enough to prevent debris from griming up the chamber. What about Brown Bear, had any issues with that?
No, I've shot WOLF WPA, Silver Bear, Hornady FTX and FTP JHP , some (can't remember the name) brass HP ammo made in Serbia (PPV?) without problems in all my P-64s. These two my friend gave me to refurbish for him are the only ones I've had ammo problems with. And then only the one mainly with the Silver Bear. The other one shot it OK, but both shot the WPA flawlessly. I'll tell him to use WPA and he'll be all right.
- Robert

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by gman68w » September 10th, 2015, 11:49 pm

A little update. I've finally managed to get around to shooting some Brown Bear, and haven't had any issues. It's essentially the same as Wolf WPA, a steel case, but with a thin coat of lacquer. Not something that inhibits case expansion as much as the zinc plating on the Silver Bear ammo.

I'm assuming the different coatings over the steel cases are to inhibit varying degrees of corrosion and rust during storage in different environments, the zinc plating being for the most extreme cases (no pun intended). As I live in a wetlands area, the Brown Bear suits me fine, but if I were to move to someplace a lot drier, the Wolf is what I'd buy. Can't imagine what you'd need the Silver Bear for. Maybe marine environments? Salty sea air and all that?
Jesus sez 'Pack Heat' Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now,
he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by chestertnted » September 18th, 2015, 3:48 pm

Some say the lacquer builds up in the chamber, and can lead to battery issues. I play it safe and do not use it. Steel is okay, but it is said that it can beat up extractors and ejectors.
"For the Founders, the right of the citizen to be armed-they never imagined a world in which they would be disarmed for the supposed benefit of preventing access to weapons by madmen."

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by gman68w » September 18th, 2015, 6:46 pm

I haven't noticed any more buildup than usual, and I doubt it's anything regular care and maintenance can't fix. As for the steel cases being rough on the gun, it's pretty much all the old USSR used, since they lacked the copper reserves the rest of the world had for making brass.
Jesus sez 'Pack Heat' Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now,
he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by Cujo » September 19th, 2015, 7:10 am

I honestly do not know yet, but i have mucho experience with the various imports for my RPK and my AKMS. I stopped using the lacquered rounds and when using steel cases, go to the polymer coated. Hornady even does this with their 7.62 and .223 bulk box, a really sweet job of polymer coating that makes you almost swear the round is wet! I have learned it is worth the extra cash to get better ammo, i will use some steel polymer in my PLR-16 and Bushmaster, but most often go with the brass-or brass coated. :hi:

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by chestertnted » September 19th, 2015, 7:17 am

I shoot Brass. IMO better for the gun in the long run. But does cost more.
"For the Founders, the right of the citizen to be armed-they never imagined a world in which they would be disarmed for the supposed benefit of preventing access to weapons by madmen."

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by Cujo » September 19th, 2015, 8:32 am

I do like one deal that i only trust with revolvers, and that is the CCI Blaser aluminum JHP rounds-a really cheaper way to get 50 rds for defense. I just use the .38 spl and .44 spl though.

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by gman68w » September 19th, 2015, 8:55 am

We're talking about 9mm Makarov used in a P64 here.
Jesus sez 'Pack Heat' Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now,
he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by Cujo » September 19th, 2015, 10:11 am

You are exactly right-i should have been more specific! CCI Blazer makes an aluminum case 9mm Makarov round. Never trusted them in autos.

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by gman68w » September 19th, 2015, 10:50 am

Whether or not you trust it, it still works. It has an expansion rate comparable to brass, and is just as soft. On that note, the steel used in steel-case ammo is a softer steel than the steel used in the metal parts of the gun.

The thing is, if you're going to switch from any of the steel-cased stuff to brass or aluminum, make sure you scrub everything out in the chamber. Steel does not expand as rapidly as brass or aluminum, so there's just enough time for debris to blow back into the empty space between the chamber walls and the outside of the case before it expands to fill the gap. The polymer and lacquer coatings help to mitigate the cases "catching" on this debris build-up, and may be why robhic was having trouble with the zinc-plated stuff (no extra coating to act as a sort of dry lubricant, but that's just a guess). Anyway, the brass cases form microscopic pits and fissures along themselves when they expand, and will catch on dirty chamber walls that had previously fired hundreds of rounds of steel ammo.
Jesus sez 'Pack Heat' Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now,
he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Cujo
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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by Cujo » September 19th, 2015, 11:01 am

Most excellent explanation! Thank you! I usually leave an ultra light coat in all my bores with Sentry Marine Tuf Glide, just to make next cleaning so much easier.

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Re: Silver Bear not OK - Wolf WPA OK

Post by Pillman » December 17th, 2015, 12:35 am

I've noticed the same in my P64. Problems with Silver Bear but Brown Bear is fine. That is all I've shot through it though.

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