Defensive Ammo

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Defensive Ammo

Post by p64 » April 4th, 2006, 7:26 pm

Looking for a concensus on the best overall defensive carry round in the Mak.

Please inc pros and cons.

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Post by space » April 4th, 2006, 8:57 pm

I'm certainly not an expert but here is the gist of what I have learned based on articles I have read on the subject.

Jacketed ammo (ball) is best for penetration which is especially critical in lower powered handguns like the Mak. You need 8-10” of penetration to reach vital organs. Less is required for frontal shots.

Hollow points are used to create a larger wound channel as well as deliver more “shock” effect. They also have a tendency to deposit all the bullets energy in the target because they rarely penetrate completely. However expansion at velocities developed by short barrel handguns (~900 fps) can be problematic with certain types of ammo. Some also believe that certain types of clothing (Denim) can "plug" the hollow point and eliminate any expansion which would make the bullet act like ball ammo.

I’m still uncertain which would be best myself. An alternative is to alternate FMJ and HP ammo in the mag so you can get the best of both worlds. In a defensive situation, it’s preferable to keep firing until the threat is gone. It’s seldom a one-shot proposition.

You could also make the argument that you could load the mag with 2 rounds of Glaser Safety Slugs followed by alternating FMJ and HP ammo. However, since the P64 only has 7/6 rounds, I’d probably skip the Glaser.

Please be aware that I have no first hand knowledge of defensive shooting situations. This is just what I have learned in my pursuit of being better informed.

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Defensive Ammo

Post by p64 » April 4th, 2006, 10:33 pm

Space
Thanks for the reply.
I actually do alternate rounds, golden sabers with fmj.
I'm mostly wondering which hp and fmj may be deemed best by our members as regards feed, reliability, effectivness, "stopping power", etc.


George

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Defensive Ammo

Post by nimble1 » April 5th, 2006, 7:43 am

Right now I have my gun loaded with the 115 gr. Silver Bear HP but plan to obtain some of the new Corbon Powerball at the next gun show. It should be available by then. I have shot a box or two of the Silver Bear and it functions well, but I would like to go to a slightly lower grain bullet.

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Post by papabear » April 5th, 2006, 8:29 am

I'm certainly not a expert either, but I agree with Space's comments about penetration and about what HP and FMJ do or don't do. However, I am a bit old-fashioned and set in my ways to a certain degree. For self-defense 9x18 ammo, I use CorBon 95 gr JHP and Hornaday 95 gr XTP in my P64 (CCW)for self-defense. I do like the idea of alternating the HP & JHP, and I want to try the CorBon Pow R Ball and the Golden Sabers as soon as I can find them locally, hate to pay shipping on ammo. Off the subject a bit, but my favorite all time self-defense ammo, and remember I am a bit old-fashioned, is the .357 lead semi-wadcutters; but I have been in a shooting, (home break in) in my home, central Illinois (1980) and I went through 18 months of BS and prue hell with the courts and a civil law suite but I got my gun back and didn't have to pay a dime to the family of the victim, cost a pretty penny for my lawyer though. .357 lead semi-wadcuttes, coming out of my S&W 13-3 3" with bobbed hammer; bada bing, bada bang, bada "Boom", IMHO, the best self-defense round out there from any handgun, for me its a tried and true round and it would be hard to change my mind! Just my 2 cents worth.
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Post by p64 » April 5th, 2006, 1:12 pm

Oh I know. My personal favorite is a .45 1911. Golden Sabres with 2 FMJ thrown into the cocktail.
Should stop almost anything I'll ever run into.
I use my Mak for backup and for "light carry" when in "good" areas.

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Post by amd6547 » April 5th, 2006, 8:18 pm

Silver bear 115's, or fiocchi fmj's.
I don't believe in mixing ball and hollowpoints.
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Post by abwehr » April 6th, 2006, 6:06 am

I have mentioned this before, but my favorite carry round for the .40 S&W is the PowRBall round. I have seen the actual bullet after firing into geleten, and it a fantastic job of expanding. I am still waiting on my local gun shop to get some in the 9mm Mak.

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Post by devlinfaust » April 7th, 2006, 7:50 am

The powrball in 9mm is by far the most devestating 9mm cartridge I've ever seen. I am excited to learn that a powrball in 9mm Mak has come out. I learn so much by reading the posts on this site. As soon as I can get some I will. I like the Hornady stuff, but it fails to feed about 1 in 10 times--OK, but not good enough to bet my life on. I haven't had trouble with either p-64 faling to feed with any other ammo. Right now, I'm using glassers, but if I can find the powrball 9mm Mak and if they feed OK, I would likely switch to the powrball.

I have guns more powerful than the 9mm Mak, but the main rule of any gunfight is to have a gun, and one way or the other, if it's my .40 S & W, my Ruger 9mm or my CZ-52, I just don't seem as motivated for CCW for them. My intentions start out good, but what I generally have with me or near me is a Kel-tec .32 or a P-64.

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Post by papabear » April 7th, 2006, 3:08 pm

devlinfaust,

I agree with you on the CCW issue, my choice for CCW is the P64, IMHO its excellent for CCW, the .357 semi-wadcutters is for home defense, the S&W 13-3 is to bulky and heavy for CCW. I want to try all the new ammo for the 9x18 before I make up my mind on which round to use for CCW. I don't have any 9mm anymore, just not big enough for me. Now days though, with the new ammo for the 9's its a much better choice, but I still prefer the .45acp Winchester 230gr SXT in a 5" bbl and the .357 lead semi-wadcutters for home defense. I know I am old-fashioned, but hey, I am still here, just my 2 cents worth.
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Post by devlinfaust » April 8th, 2006, 1:18 pm

Papa bear,

Nothing wrong with either the .357 mag or the 45acp! I have one of each. The .357 mag is a Dan Wesson 8 inch vent-heavy barrel that I bought used, and it must be 20 years old. Probably, it is the most accurate handgun in my collection. I also inherited a .45 Colt. I like the Colt because of the big, heavy bullett and that the rounds are subsonic. But the .357 Dan Wesson is my key home defense gun. Dr. Dan is way too big for CCW, though, so that's the niche of where the P-64 and Kel-Tecs come in. I suppose if I knew I was going into a dangerous place and could wear a jacket that I would shoulder holster a bigger handgun, but I'm not a cop or government agent, so carrying around a large gun all day just isn't going to happen in my world, at least not on a day to day basis.

For home defense, I load Dr. Dan with glasser 38 specials. Not the most devestating cartridge for that gun, but in home defense, I don't want a shell that will go through walls and stuff ,maybe hitting the ones I'm actually trying to defend.

I read where the 357 ammo is in a decline, offering roughtly two-thirds of various styles than was offered about 10 years ago. It may be that some folks are overlooking the value of that cartridge, not only for defense, but also for close range hunting.

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Post by amd6547 » April 8th, 2006, 3:16 pm

I refuse to buy "magic bullets" at exorbitant prices. I include in that description hornady at about $12/25 here in Cleveland. I will stick to $7/50 fmj's and silver bear--ammo that I can afford to shoot an get good with, as well as assure that it works reliably in my pistol.
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Post by space » April 8th, 2006, 5:12 pm

Yep, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a any self defense round that I haven't had at least 100 rounds through my gun with ZERO jams etc...

Not doing that with Glassers. :(

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Post by himmel » April 8th, 2006, 7:17 pm

I agree--that's why I'm with amd for the most part--but jams aren't such a big problem in revolvers...and the occasional dud can be remedied with a second pull.

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Post by abwehr » April 9th, 2006, 5:38 am

You guys make a good point about the "magic bullets" (I love that name, LOL). Anytime you are going to depend on your life with ammo, you have GOT to make sure it functions properly. with the price of the PowRBall, I did fire one box thru my SIG to verify function, but more would have been better.

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