FYI on mil-surp ammo ...

saands · Post by **saands** » September 16th, 2007, 10:04 pm

I am building a "high accuracy" rifle out of a Mann Device (a 1.25" bull barrel on a 03a3 receiver that the military used to test the accuracy of the ammo lots it procured). I just finished carving the stock ... enough to shoot the rifle ... and I went out to the 100yd line and almost cried ... this beauty could barely keep the shots on an 8.5x11 piece of paper :'(

Well ... I was using FN surplus 308 exclusively and I started to wonder ... could it possibly be the ammo? I broke open a box of Hirtenberger surplus and my 8MOA rifle all of a sudden turned into a 1.5MOA rifle ... now the 1.5 was done with what turned out to be a loose scope base and 20knot crosswinds ... so I'm not too concerned about the 1.5MOA (I still need to bed the action and locktite all the scope screws ... but I just wanted to give you guys a heads up that sometimes the milsurp out there was surplussed fpr a reason other than age. This FN ammo came from Southern Ammo and was QUITE cheap ... the other ammo mixed in with it was also pretty lousy as far as accuracy was concerned, but the Hirt and some Malaysian MG ammo seemed fine. I never would have thought that ammo could be THAT bad ... we pulled some of the projectiles and replaced them with new 147grn FMJ's and that group was much better. I'll post some pics of this project when it is done, but the walnut stock still needs some TLC to get all the scratches out of it and then several coats of BLO.

Saands

garry · Post by **garry** » September 17th, 2007, 2:25 pm

Hey Saands, I have had mixed luck with several Ammo brands also, and I was wondering what the "Mann" device is? Can you post some pics please? The stock that you are working on is also of interest to me, can you post some pics of your project? Thanks Alot Man, G

garry · Post by **garry** » September 17th, 2007, 2:27 pm

Also... what type of bullet puller do you use? a hammer type or a collet type maybe? and how well do they work and which type would you suggest i get? (i reload and have several old cartridges that i'd like to "strip down". Thanks again, G

saands · Post by **saands** » September 18th, 2007, 9:54 pm

I'm on the road, but pics will follow. The Mann Device is a Springfield 03a3 action with an insanely thick barrel ... 1.3-1.5 inch diameter ... that the US military would mount in a fixture to test the accuracy of rifle ammo that they bought. You can buy them through the ODCMP ... The stock on mine started out as a Weatherby blank from Cali'co Hardwoods in Santa Rosa CA ... they are not inletted AT ALL ... so they can be made to fit anything ... an important consideration of you are going to make something with a barrel like the Mann.

The puller that I use is a collet puller that fits into a standard reloading press ... it works REALLY well and I routinely pull FMJ projectiles and replace them with JHP's for hunting purposes with both 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, and 303brit. This is the first time I've pulled any 308 mil-surp ... I had always assumed that it was all of decent quality ... I now know better! Luckily I never sold any of the poor performing 308's that I have ... I'll be taking them out soon to see if their miserable performance was just the bad ammo!

Pics to follow ...

Saands

nbender · Post by **nbender** » September 18th, 2007, 10:07 pm

saands, that rifle you're building is cool beyond belief. It is tempting to add the .308 to my growing calibers just to do what you're doing.

saands · Post by **saands** » September 18th, 2007, 10:33 pm

Cool beyond belief will be if I can duplicate what some have claimed in terms of accuracy out of this project ... cloverleaf patterns at 200yds .... a quarter on my desk with three 308" holes in it would qualify

I know that some exaggerate excessively, so I won't hold my breath waiting for THAT kind of accuracy, but this one should be my best shooter when I'm done ... and with all the work to make the stock by hand, I'm glad that I invested the extra for the fancy wood

Saands

saands · Post by **saands** » September 22nd, 2007, 5:41 pm

Well ... I finally got a few coats of BLO on this stock and one coat of BLO/BeesWax/CitriSol ... I'm pretty happy with the results. As promised, here are the pics ... it's a 308 with a 6-20x50 scope and a 22" barrel ... when I looked at the pics, I thought that it looked like a 16" barrel with a 6x32 scope ;D

Saands

trent · Post by **trent** » September 22nd, 2007, 7:29 pm

VERY NICE!

carguy · Post by **carguy** » September 22nd, 2007, 8:40 pm

Holy Crap Saands man!!

That is awesome! I wish I had the skills, knowledge and nerve to attempt such a project!

:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Post by **dfunk** » September 24th, 2007, 12:23 pm

garry · Post by **garry** » September 24th, 2007, 2:36 pm

That is Sweeeeeeet ! I saw some "Rail Guns" They are pretty cool. Basically a Rifle cannon on a solid base. I am very tempted to try making one. if someday ever comes ....
here are some pics:

Here is a link to alot of pics: http://www.bryantcustom.com/galleries/railguns.htm
Enjoy. G

carguy · Post by **carguy** » September 24th, 2007, 9:40 pm

Them ain't no huntin rifles...

I can just see the looks on everyone's face as I set one up at the gun club on a Sunday morning (busiest time of the week). ::)

Very cool but I still like what saands did and would love to actually build a regular rifle of my own.

Saands: This is none of my business so tell me so if you'd like and I'll take no offense but I'd like to know how expensive that project was? I am just sooo intrigued by your accomplishment!

saands · Post by **saands** » September 25th, 2007, 9:56 am

No ... no problem ... the Mann Device (complete Springfield 03a3 action in pristine condition and the barrel with a pristine bore and very rough surface finish) was $500 from the CMP plus 22.95 shipping. The Stock blank was $44 from Cali'co hardwoods. The scope bases and rings were about $20 at MidwayUSA and the scope is a Simmons Whitetail Classic on sale for $99 ... the Harris bipod is one that I use on many of my rifles, so, in total I spent just under $700 on the whole project.

I've built other rifles for less ... this 243 was made from a $39 Turkish Mauser action and a $40 Rem700 take-off barrel (like new) ... the reamer rental was $40 ... and the stock was $60 ... so for $180 plus glass I got a .243 that has taken prairie dogs at over 300yds. The appendage on the muzzle is a barrel harmonics tuner I made on the same principle as the Browning BOSS ... YES, it works!

Saands

saands · Post by **saands** » September 25th, 2007, 10:00 am

I should add, that I have access to a machine shop (mill and lathe) ... and the Mauser conversions require that if you want to use the cheap and plentiful Rem700 barrels (you need to cut new threads on the barrel). Otherwise, you can buy a slightly more expensive barrel and make a rifle on a VZ-24 or Yugo M-48 large ring Mauser action ... the reamer doesn't NEED to be used in a lathe (although it is handy if you have one).

Saands

nbender · Post by **nbender** » September 25th, 2007, 10:23 am

Whew! Now I need a rail gun in addition to the Mann Device.

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