The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum

Three more people shot in a Detroit church today. If there was a law abiding CCW guy there, that number might have been reduced to one or less, and the killer wouldn't be on the loose.

Butch50: Do you carry when you golf????????????

Yes, Always. I have a Mak that resides permanently in my golf bag.

I carry when I am outside the house about 99% of the time, wherever I go. Movies, banks, grocery stores, golf, garage sales, it is just part of me like having my keys in my pocket or my wallet in my pocket.

With golf I keep a Mak in my bag and I carry my bag wherever I go, or keep it very close to me at all times - I found it bothersome to try and swing a gof club while having a gun on me, it clunks around. Other than that I nearly always have my CZAK in my front right pocket.

I am very sorry to hear about the Detroit murders. My heart and prayers go out to the victims families.

Butch: I am Suprised that you keep your "shootin iron" just in the golf bag. Better to walk around with two CZAKs in hand with saftey off and ready to blast anyone who looks like they are a "bad hombre" (to you, at least) . If we all did that, look at the money that wouold be saved when the cops, courts, lawyers, jails and rehab centers could be eliminated and society could reduce itself to a matter of "survival" from the self appointed vigilante. I don't want to be in DFW TX when you are in church and/or golfing and run into someone of the same mentality. HEADLINES: "two CCW gun nuts shoot it out over mistaken identity"

I think you're right about acting a certain way in church or out, but the gun thing may be more akin to cursing throughout the week. In other words, for all we know it may be a sin to carry at any time. God could be against firearms, period. I'm not a churchgoer, but I don't think God envisioned his flock attending mass carrying swords and spears, the weapons of the day.

Actually, Jesus advised His disciples at one point, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one"..But the larger point is more interesting to me--what makes you think that carrying a firearm is sinful, something that a practicing Christian wouldn't do? I have to say, I find it interesting how many people who never darken the doors of a church or never cracked a Bible have such strong opinions about how Christianity ought to work..as in "By all means carry a gun, it beats praying"...

Hey Czak, why bother to get the permit if you're not going to carry the handgun? Why buy an insurance policy if you're going to deny the coverage?? I'm sorry, but you sound just a bit like those Sarah Brady folks who ran around in Florida airports passing out flyers saying "Beware of being shot--you are in a right-to-carry state" to all the incoming tourists...

Look at Lott's statistics. 13 of 14 times a firearm is used to defend against a crime, the trigger is not pulled. Happened that way in my one experience.

If you think us carry types are looking to go vigilante, you don't know us. Every permit holder I have ever met has been very thoughtful about the responsibility. But if the poop hits the fan, we will do what we must...

And I have no doubts that if I am involved in even a truly righteous self-defense shooting it will haunt me all my life.

I think you're right about acting a certain way in church or out, but the gun thing may be more akin to cursing throughout the week. In other words, for all we know it may be a sin to carry at any time. God could be against firearms, period. I'm not a churchgoer, but I don't think God envisioned his flock attending mass carrying swords and spears, the weapons of the day.

Actually, Jesus advised His disciples at one point, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one"..But the larger point is more interesting to me--what makes you think that carrying a firearm is sinful, something that a practicing Christian wouldn't do? I have to say, I find it interesting how many people who never darken the doors of a church or never cracked a Bible have such strong opinions about how Christianity ought to work..as in "By all means carry a gun, it beats praying"...

As far as christianity goes, I think the idea is to strive to be Christ-like. I don't recall reading of him brandishing any weapons, even to save his own life. I think Christ would be happier if you just jumped in the path of the bullets rather than blow away one of his errant sheep. Personally, I don't buy into any of the religious stuff anymore, but I'm having a hard time understanding how people that do feel its OK to carry in church.

You have to read the whole story, Daysleeper--picking out a part or two just won't do...

Daysleeper has got it right!!! If you feel unsafe in Church, DON'T GO!!! If you feel unsafe for others, arm your self with bullet proof vest ( no firearms) and jump in front of any unlikely fire!!That's the whole story, anything else is self agrandizement and pure Bull S__t!!!!

And BTW--I do recall Jesus brandishing a whip and overturning tables, as a matter of preserving the sanctity of His Father's house--and I recall him stunning the mob that came to arrest Him before submitting to their "authority", just to remind us all that He gave His life freely, not by any compulsion..And I could go on with more lethal examples from various of God's servants, but it's like I said earlier--you just need to read the whole story.

HIMMEL: i GOT MY ccw permit to conform to the legal requirementrs of my "HOBBY"!!! i DO NOT Consider my permit a license to terorize espl in Church and I DO NOT CONSIDER IT A "VIGILANTE WARRANT" By the way, anyone here ever see a person shot??? I have read a lot of hearsay newspaper reports, but nothing that would stand up in court as a defense when you shoot the wrong person in church. Unless of course you plug the minister who is banging the females in the chior!!!!! LOL

CZAKBoy - I am neither a terrorist nor a vigilante. I am not running around shooting the town up, nor am I out looking for an excuse to use a gun. I have neither attacked you personally or accused you of any dishonorable or foolish acts, thoughts or deeds.

In spite of what you may think, I carry responsibly and act with responsibility. Why are you so distressed?

I seem to remember someone saying, "judge not, lest ye be judged..."

This subject is getting a little personal now guys, remember, we all have our opinions and the laws vary in different places for CCW and the Church. If a pistol is legally carried in Church, talk with your Pastor first to get his opinion and guidance. Follow his lead.

Thanks, Abwehr--Sorry to all if I got out of line--or rather, for when I got out of line...