WWJS.
;D
Who carries to Church
Who carries to Church
We do know the the Deciples carried weapons because Paul cut off the ear of a fellow and Jesus put it back on. Jesus told Paul to put his sword down, but NOT to disarm!
WWJD......... CARRY A WEAPON, but know when to use it properly!
Edit - You know guys, this was an afterthought after making the post, but this has been a really good thread about CCW in Church and I learned a lot about differnt laws in various areas.
WWJD......... CARRY A WEAPON, but know when to use it properly!
Edit - You know guys, this was an afterthought after making the post, but this has been a really good thread about CCW in Church and I learned a lot about differnt laws in various areas.
Last edited by abwehr on January 28th, 2006, 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fjblackesq
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- Location: SW FLA - NAPLES & SW MICH - G
Who carries to Church
"knowing what to do" is a very subjective matter--- you must also past the "rule of law" and be able to pass the objective test(s) of current society and culture!!! Best to "put your sword down" (leave your CZAK in the car) when you go to pray!!!
Who carries to Church
I don't see any reason not to carry in Church, unless specifically asked not to by the Church. There is nothing inherently evil about a gun. Carrying a gun into a Church is not, in and of itself, a sin. Carrying with the purpose of protecting yourself and the other good people around you, to me, seems like an honorable act - not a sinful act.
Why is there a moral problem with carrying in Church? And if there actually is a moral problem with it, why doesn't that moral problem extend beyond the Church's threshold? In this crazy world bad things happen to good people, especially good people who are unprepared for bad things to happen. That includes things happening inside of a Church.
Why is there a moral problem with carrying in Church? And if there actually is a moral problem with it, why doesn't that moral problem extend beyond the Church's threshold? In this crazy world bad things happen to good people, especially good people who are unprepared for bad things to happen. That includes things happening inside of a Church.
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fjblackesq
- Member
- Posts: 155
- Joined: November 11th, 2005, 12:45 am
- Location: SW FLA - NAPLES & SW MICH - G
Who carries to Church
Hey Butch, is that the way it is in the "Republic of Texas"? Try a BIBLE next time you go! Peace !
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mikethewreck
- Member
- Posts: 172
- Joined: December 3rd, 2005, 3:34 pm
- Location: Chattanooga, TN
Who carries to Church
My boss told me of an incident where a woman trying to go to church was assaulted by a male in the parking lot. He ended the assault with his carry gun.
Bad stuff can happen anywhere.
BTW, it was Peter that used the sword, not Paul. Jesus had just advocated earlier for his followers to carry a sword. He rebuked Peter not for self-defense but because HE was giving Himself up. In John's gospel it's clear Jesus could not be taken against His will.
Bad stuff can happen anywhere.
BTW, it was Peter that used the sword, not Paul. Jesus had just advocated earlier for his followers to carry a sword. He rebuked Peter not for self-defense but because HE was giving Himself up. In John's gospel it's clear Jesus could not be taken against His will.
Who carries to Church
CZAKboy, Hi, How are You?
I understand where you are coming from, I think. Most people feel the way you do.
However, I have a hard time equating "defenseless" with "Christian". They don't seem to be connected to me. I equate "defenseless" to giving control over my life to people I do not know, and while sometimes that is unavoidable (driving in traffic for instance) when it can be avoided I prefer to avoid that.
What would you actually say to a fellow parishoner of yours, if you knew he was peacefully carrying within your Church?
I understand where you are coming from, I think. Most people feel the way you do.
However, I have a hard time equating "defenseless" with "Christian". They don't seem to be connected to me. I equate "defenseless" to giving control over my life to people I do not know, and while sometimes that is unavoidable (driving in traffic for instance) when it can be avoided I prefer to avoid that.
What would you actually say to a fellow parishoner of yours, if you knew he was peacefully carrying within your Church?
Last edited by butch50 on January 28th, 2006, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mikethewreck
- Member
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- Joined: December 3rd, 2005, 3:34 pm
- Location: Chattanooga, TN
Who carries to Church
I know I often carry to church. There was a recent shooting where some nut mad at his church walked into a service and started blasting away. But then again, I try to be armed whenever I leave the house...
Oh yes, and I carry a bible too!
Oh yes, and I carry a bible too!
Last edited by mikethewreck on January 28th, 2006, 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who carries to Church
Hi, new member here. Also happen to be a lawyer, formerly a prosecutor. Re the Texas law-- If there is no "effective notice" there is no prohibition to carrying in church. Effective notice means essentially the sign. It can be a personal communication from the owner of the premises think, I would have to look at the statute, but failing that, and failing the sign, it is OK to carry there--whether you can convince the local police may be another story, tho. It is not an issue with me, I go to "church" in the homes of friends, all of whom have their own CCHLs...
Who carries to Church
In states where the law clearly prohibits ccw in a church, well the legislature has spoken. But where it is either not forbidden, or not forbidden if you have permission (which is what Missouri has) then I'm curious - if the church's head honcho thinks guns are evil enough that they should not be under his roof, shouldn't he apply the same rule to guns carried by police officers? And ask them either to leave their guns in their cars or worship somewhere else? If not, what is the basis for the distinction in treatment between cops and the rest of the law abiding citizenry?
I can't imagine any minister/rector/priest in charge insisting that cops disarm at the church door, but also can't quite imagine the thought process of one who says "yeah, but the rest of you guys have to leave yours outside."
I can't imagine any minister/rector/priest in charge insisting that cops disarm at the church door, but also can't quite imagine the thought process of one who says "yeah, but the rest of you guys have to leave yours outside."
Who carries to Church
mikethewreck,
Thanks for the correction on Peter having the sword and not Paul. I guess I was writing faster than I was thinking. Yes, I do agree that Jesus did want his deciples to be armed. During those times, there were a lot of wild animals in the wilderness areas they traveled and also wild people where they traveled. My personal opinion is that if your life is in danger, Jesus would want you to protect yourself. If your life is not in danger, then you are to turn the "other cheek". I feel the "turn the other cheek" is for verbal or very minor physical insults; keep you temper under control!
Thanks for the correction on Peter having the sword and not Paul. I guess I was writing faster than I was thinking. Yes, I do agree that Jesus did want his deciples to be armed. During those times, there were a lot of wild animals in the wilderness areas they traveled and also wild people where they traveled. My personal opinion is that if your life is in danger, Jesus would want you to protect yourself. If your life is not in danger, then you are to turn the "other cheek". I feel the "turn the other cheek" is for verbal or very minor physical insults; keep you temper under control!
Who carries to Church
By the way, abwehr, it was Peter who cut off the ear, not Paul; but your point is well taken.
And I do agree with all the people who said that you should pay attention to the Word while you are in church. (I am a preacher, after all.)
You might want to be aware, though, that in an official directive from Al Qaeda about 18 months ago (I don't recall exactly), religious groups that evangelize Muslims were given the highest priority as targets. This info was from an FBI alert received by a Christian group that I know and work with. Bottom line, it is not unthinkable that a church could be specifically targeted.
Can't speak for the laws, but as a pastor, I would certainly be comfortable having members that I know and trust (and who are licensed and trained) armed in my church.
For what it's worth.
God bless and straight shooting,
-Kempin
And I do agree with all the people who said that you should pay attention to the Word while you are in church. (I am a preacher, after all.)
You might want to be aware, though, that in an official directive from Al Qaeda about 18 months ago (I don't recall exactly), religious groups that evangelize Muslims were given the highest priority as targets. This info was from an FBI alert received by a Christian group that I know and work with. Bottom line, it is not unthinkable that a church could be specifically targeted.
Can't speak for the laws, but as a pastor, I would certainly be comfortable having members that I know and trust (and who are licensed and trained) armed in my church.
For what it's worth.
God bless and straight shooting,
-Kempin
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slimster22
- Posts: 5
- Joined: February 13th, 2006, 12:19 pm
Who carries to Church
I feel He gave me the duty to protect those around me. I don't feel He has any issue with the use of firearms anywhere if the situation warrants it. The most accurrate translation, from what I've read is not that Thou shalt not kill, it is Thou shalt not murder. Murder is very different than other types of killing. The use of deadly force is something that should only be brought forth when no other option presents itself. Many churches have been shot up in the past. If someone there had the know how to stop further murder with a cc weapon, they should. I think the Lord would be sad if we didn't use our free will in those instances to protect His creations while they worship Him. We should carry where it is legal to and fight for the stripping away of the illegal legislation that prevents us from carrying in the remaining places.
Who carries to Church
Texas is NOT "NO CARRY" in church. Unless they post a proper and compliant 30:06 notice. That was changed several years ago.
See the last line and check the * notes (or check the Texas DPS website) in the following quotqtion which list places that are "off limits" for concealed carry in Texas.
Title 10 Chpt. 46 § 46.03
A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption
On premises of a correctional facility
On the physical premises of a school, an educational institution, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or an educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private,
On the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event
On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress.
racetrack; secured area of an airport
In any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court.
*on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
*On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code
*On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code
*Amusement parks. Amusement Parks means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
Public or private premises conspicuously posted with this sign do
Items above marked * Do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
See the last line and check the * notes (or check the Texas DPS website) in the following quotqtion which list places that are "off limits" for concealed carry in Texas.
Title 10 Chpt. 46 § 46.03
A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption
On premises of a correctional facility
On the physical premises of a school, an educational institution, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or an educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private,
On the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event
On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress.
racetrack; secured area of an airport
In any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court.
*on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
*On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code
*On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code
*Amusement parks. Amusement Parks means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
Public or private premises conspicuously posted with this sign do
Items above marked * Do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
Who carries to Church
Ya know guys, I try to carry everywhere, that's why I went to the trouble to get a permit--I went to a more or less "regular" church the other day with my Zastava on my left hip, and i have to admit, I felt pretty funny--But then, last week I went to a "regular" church, left the Zastava in the truck--and felt pretty funny in another way. I think I would pobably rather feel funny than feel funny AND vulnerable...BTW I'll be glad when I can shoot my new CZAK, can see whether it will replace the Zastava...