What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

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butch50
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by butch50 » March 13th, 2008, 6:02 pm

I don't know if I am making anyone mad or not - I hope not, but then again if you get angry at hearing honest opinions from someone who has been around the block, then you may just have a larger set of problems to deal with anyway - and wouldn't last long in my circle of friends - they are a frank and direct bunch.

I am not impressed by people who think they live in a world that requires them to walk around with the safety off - the people that I have known in person like that have been about 3 beers shy of a six pack. Maybe you guys are better than them, I don't know - I sure hope so.

If you don't trust yourself to do something as simple as take the safety off during an emergency, then lord only knows where you are going to be spraying bullets or at who. The idea that you are in so much danger that you are compelled to be ready 24/7 to engage in a shoot out in less than time it takes to flip the safety, well that is just plain immature. If you really truly really are repeatedly going into areas like that on purpose, then you really truly really do have a larger set of problems to deal with.

If anyone has a copy of a written police policy stating that the police are to keep their safetys off, please scan and post it here - I am willing to eat crow if there is an authentic one out there in any city in the USA.

orchidhunter
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by orchidhunter » March 13th, 2008, 6:43 pm

butch50, I know first hand a old fee graber that whould not be here today, had he not had the saftey on his S&W model 39 when the bad guy disarmed him and could not get the saftey off before the fee graber got to his J frame. orchidhunter

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by dolang1 » March 13th, 2008, 7:04 pm

Butch50, My brother-in-law tells me that there is a Gun Show at Big town this weekend. I'm driving down from Oklahoma. Always interested in meeting new people, especially those that give good advice. Later Don

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by ourbigbluehouse » March 13th, 2008, 9:30 pm

The times I've shot my 64 with my former ccw class, I had difficulty flipping up the strongly sprung safety lever in a draw from IWB and fire situation. The instructor suggested carrying safety off and hammer down. Then cock the hammer when drawing. I found this to be must easier and a more confident method. I feel that if you are going to carry a firearm. then you need to not only be sensitive to your surroundings, but how to handle the possibly dangerous piece of Polish steel you have attached to your body. If you can't handle it don't carry it. Just my rant.

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by kempin » March 14th, 2008, 8:33 am

Garry,

Thanks for sharing that sobering lesson with the rest of us. The wise will learn to continually cultivate a healthy respect and fear of a firearm, even as we work to become very confortable and capable with it. Just one correction: You were not "God Damn" lucky, you were "God Blessed" lucky . . . especially since you are taking it to heart.

For the record, I understand and accept that some of you are deeply acquainted with a "downward sweep" safety, and I see why you might want to trust the trigger safety alone for carry. That makes sense to me. That is a specific and considered reason by someone who is thoughtful and careful.

Beyond that, I still think it is wise to minimize risk whenever possible. I personally don't buy the "speed" argument, but I do believe that drops and unforeseen circumstances can occur. No judgement on anyone, but I am benefitting from a good discussion about safety and common sense. I appreciate the perspectives and experiences of the rest of you on this board.

God bless and straight shooting,

-Kempin

grayfox
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by grayfox » March 14th, 2008, 8:53 am

I don't know if I am making anyone mad or not - I hope not, but then again if you get angry at hearing honest opinions from someone who has been around the block, then you may just have a larger set of problems to deal with anyway - and wouldn't last long in my circle of friends - they are a frank and direct bunch.

I am not impressed by people who think they live in a world that requires them to walk around with the safety off - the people that I have known in person like that have been about 3 beers shy of a six pack. Maybe you guys are better than them, I don't know - I sure hope so.

If you don't trust yourself to do something as simple as take the safety off during an emergency, then lord only knows where you are going to be spraying bullets or at who. The idea that you are in so much danger that you are compelled to be ready 24/7 to engage in a shoot out in less than time it takes to flip the safety, well that is just plain immature. If you really truly really are repeatedly going into areas like that on purpose, then you really truly really do have a larger set of problems to deal with.

If anyone has a copy of a written police policy stating that the police are to keep their safetys off, please scan and post it here - I am willing to eat crow if there is an authentic one out there in any city in the USA.


Not to make anyone mad, but I don't carry to impress you or anyone else. As for dept. policy, when I was a Chief in Fla, NO ONE, per the firearms instrutor carried with the safety on. How anyone carries is a personal thing, we are not in school so we can even be stupid if we want. I respect your views, but I'll still keep the right to carry with the hammer down & safety off. 8-)

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by garry » March 14th, 2008, 4:38 pm

"I GOT Damn Lucky" Thanks , I don't carry ,btw just so you guys know, but i am Very GRATEFUL for those of you whom DO carry for our safety ! I hope you never have to use it too... How you carry is fine by me either and way as long as you CAN Carry , exercise your rights consciously and legally when doing so .
Besides the scare of an accident that didn't happen yesterday ~ A lesson I was reminded of yesterday(and is still heavily in my mind today) is--
The RULES are there for a REASON, and they were written with alot of experience to back'Em up.
Irresponsible firearms use gives the sport a bad name and hurts our ability to retain those rights that allow us to enjoy this sport and keep our guns ,even for protection. Well, Happy shooting and don't get too relaxed and casual when shooting...Please, G

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by redfestiva » March 14th, 2008, 5:26 pm

Garry,
It seems when someone does something like that which puts a sobering scare into them, they tend to never forget it and never repeat the mistake. I'm glad there was no harm done. You'll be a safer shooter now having had it happen.

butch50
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by butch50 » March 14th, 2008, 7:30 pm

Enough said by me - it is a free country - do what you believe is best for you.

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by grayfox » March 14th, 2008, 9:36 pm

Butch,'
I agree, I've carried for about 35 years and been involved in several shootings & I now work in one of the highest crime areas in Knoxville but what scares the hell out of me is what I,m seeing on some of the people getting thier ccw lic in this area. They don't know one end of a gun from another. I sure hope they ALWAYS have thier safety on, maybe a lock would be better. I think they should have to have a far better understanding of weapons before they could get a lic. :'(
And over look me when I get cranky, just the ol gray matter going bad. I don't want to sound that way to a member. :)
Last edited by grayfox on March 14th, 2008, 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

michaelap
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by michaelap » March 14th, 2008, 10:07 pm

grayfox
Hey brother lets hope our biggest issue is this debate! Every day I am thankfull for my right to enter the day with my sidearm and every night I am so very thankfull for the safety of my girls. Lets hope more folks out there find there way to discuss with others and practice more safer ways. Though I wish to practice "safety" (as we all should) I also say a quiet prayer for any who wish to threaten the safety of those WE LOVE. We wouldn't spend a little time here with those of mostly like minds if we didn't share some common threads of what is right. God bless us those who have the right to quibble when others can only be victims!!!!!!!!!! Amen?

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beasleydano
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by beasleydano » March 15th, 2008, 1:09 am

Amen! This has been a great thread! I appreciate hearing everyone's opinions. This board is a great open forum. I do enjoy this board and appreciate all you guys for sharing opinions, experiences and great information.

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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by lcberlin » March 15th, 2008, 7:20 am

I have really enjoyed this thread. Lots of good thoughts on this issue. I take issue with this statement from butch50, tho…..”I am not impressed by people who think they live in a world that requires them to walk around with the safety off - the people that I have known in person like that have been about 3 beers shy of a six pack. Maybe you guys are better than them, I don't know - I sure hope so.

If you don't trust yourself to do something as simple as take the safety off during an emergency, then lord only knows where you are going to be spraying bullets or at who. The idea that you are in so much danger that you are compelled to be ready 24/7 to engage in a shoot out in less than time it takes to flip the safety, well that is just plain immature. If you really truly really are repeatedly going into areas like that on purpose, then you really truly really do have a larger set of problems to deal with.” {bold and underline added by me}

Please bear with me while I state my point of view.

I carry 3 different pistols for self defense, depending. They are my P-64(SA/DA), a Beretta 950 in .25acp (SA), and a Beretta .32acp (SA/DA). I do not carry a spare magazine with me for any of the pistols. When I leave home, I am NOT looking to get into a gun fight. I just want to have the means to stop someone from doing “bad things” to me and mine, should the need arise. I carry all my pistols loaded the same way, one in the chamber and a full magazine, safety off.

I live in a society that has told the criminal element among us that it is fine and dandy to cause harm and mayhem, thus my decision to carry a gun for self defense. I am not required to leave the safety off, I just do. I trust myself and my ability to reason in times of stress and emergency, and I have imagined and planned for possible scenarios that I may encounter in the area I live in. I don’t leave the safety off to be ready to ‘pray-n-spray’ or because I am all hyped up for a shoot out. If I was, why would I be carrying a mouse gun, or a milsurp that only loads out at 7 rounds? Would not a full size .45 or double stack 9 be the handgun of choice, along with multiple magazines? The assumption you make about me because I choose not to engage a mechanical safety is way off base.

I have an old Toro/Wheelhorse lawn tractor. Over the years, all of the interlocks/safeties that were put on it to make it “safe” have been bypassed or removed. I can leave the seat with the motor running, back up with the blades turning, and start it without depressing the brake pedal. Does this mean I am in a rush to get out there and mow the grass before it grows another millimeter?

Other things I do, of a similar nature….I have pointy scissors that the kids use …the trampoline does not have a safety net around it and it sits on plain old grass covered dirt…the kids wear helmets and boots when they ride their dirt bikes, but not goggles or gloves or other protective clothing… I use a headset and talk on my cell phone while driving…I don’t wear a seatbelt while driving my truck…this list could go on and on.

I am no more protected with whatever safety engaged, than without it. All the ‘safeties’ I can think of are there for the “just in case” scenario, or to allow people to not have to think about what they are doing. My personal experience has shown that those people who insist on making sure the ‘safety device’ is being used come to rely on it way more than on themselves to prevent a mishap. There is always that exception, of where tragedy could have been averted IF this or that had been done prior to the event. I guess I must be a walking Darwin Award recipient waiting to happen. After reading what I have written, that’s the conclusion I come to, anyways. Safety is a mindset, not a mechanical device.

That’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it.

Sure didn’t mean this as a personal attack on butch or anyone else. Just my view on things.

grayfox
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by grayfox » March 15th, 2008, 8:40 am

Very well put! I agree, but could not say it as well. I think this type of forum makes new people learn, maybe some old ones. As for being prepared 24/7, you can be shot going to your mailbox. I worked too many homicides to believe anywere is "safe". The world has changed.. 8-)
Last edited by grayfox on March 15th, 2008, 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

butch50
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What I learned about my p-64 today . . .

Post by butch50 » March 15th, 2008, 10:01 am

I wasn't going to say anymore, but I changed my mind. I want to add this to the mix.

One thing that we all have in common is that we make mistakes. We forget where we put our keys, we accidentally run a red light, we have car wrecks, we cut ourselves shaving, we fumble and drop a cup of coffee, we forget to set our alarm clocks, we dress in the dark and put on red socks with blue pants, and on and on and on. We don't do these things often, in fact we only do them rarely - but we do make mistakes - every single one of us without exception makes mistakes. If we did not make mistakes then safety's would never have been invented in the first place, or helmets, or seatbelts, or safety razors, or tang guards, or mower shrouds, or horns, or ground fault interruptors or hand rails, or safety toe shoes, or safety glasses, or .........

Some mistakes are relatively harmless, and some are fatal. Having a mechanical safety on a gun is a last resort protective device against our all too human nature of making mistakes. It is a thin line and one that you can not rely on solely. A mechanical safety by itself is of little value, but when combined with training and awareness and thoughtfulness and good habits, it is a significant help.

If you keep the safety off, you are making a conscious decision to not believe in your own fallibility - you are in essence telling yourself that you are so good and so cool that you will never make a mistake and you are then making one of the very mistakes that can turn into a fatality. In other workds by believing that you will not make a mistake, you have already made a mistake.

My life experience, and I have been hunting unsupervised with a firearm since I was 8 years old; and I was in the US Army infantry and had additional specific kinds of combat training by special forces troops who were ordered back to the US after they had spent several years in Vietnam and Cambodia, has proven to me that no one is infallible with a firearm, and that everyone needs to keep the safety on as an integral part of their firearms safety habits until as a general rule.

There are situations of heightened danger where it is appropriate to take the safety off - but otherwise it should be routinely on. If part of your firearm safety habits is to have it on, then taking it off at the appropriate time is also routine.

You may never make that particular mistake with a firearm that having a safety on would prevent. If you do then you won't think a whole lot about it because the safety was on and prevented the accident, not such a big deal. If however you make a mistake and the safety is off then you will be severely shaken up - it is A BIG DIFFERENCE between them, as anyone can tell you that has been there. If you ever make a serious mistake that having the safety on would have prevented, you will wish for the rest of your life that you had those moments back so that you could do it right this time.

Your mind is your most important safety, absolutley true - but your mind has holes in it that causes or allows mistakes to happen, and that is absolutley true too - you need that mechanical safety to backstop you when you fall throught one of those holes in your mind.

Of course if you have never made a serious mistake, and never will - why then you just don't need that safety and I agree with your not using it.

Now, enough said by me for sure.
Last edited by butch50 on March 15th, 2008, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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