Better then a Makarov? Possible

triehl27 · Post by **triehl27** » January 9th, 2006, 9:00 pm

This is not the start of a flame war, simply my observations. I love Makarovs and have done customs maks in 98-01, I know them inside and out. My carry .380 has probablly 20K through it and my carry 9X18 has easily 30K+ through it. I still love them. But as I am looking over the P64 I can't help but think maybe it is a better weapon. It doesn't have the rep of the mak, but it carries and points better. That was one of my main complaints with the maks. Granted once you got used to them 50yd shots into a Center of mass target for me were not hard with a decent gun, and that was before customizations.
If the p64 lives up to my expectations I am planning on several more, as projects. If the mainspring swap works wonders and makes it a usable DA then I may have found my inspiration to get back into gun smithing and customs.

I ordered up 5 sets of ppk springs for my p64's and my buddy's. I have high hopes for the P64 in the near future.

Post by **dfunk** » January 9th, 2006, 9:30 pm

If you've frequented other gun related message boards (and I'm sure you have), then you will probably note that we have very little to no complaints about this little gun. I've been on the Kel-Tec forum a few times just looking around, and these owners have to do the work that should have been done at the factory and still have problems with them. You own a solid piece of steel that's well-built and should outlive you. Better than a Mak? Purely based on opinion, but...
1. points better
2. carries better
3. same reliability
4. same caliber
5. less expensive
6. same features
7. same accuracy
8. (we're building the reputation right now)

I think so. ;D

abwehr · Post by **abwehr** » January 10th, 2006, 7:36 am

We all have our opinions about weapons, I like to shoot the big bore stuff like the .45 ACP in pistols, and nothing less than a .30 in a rifle, but there are so many different modes or uses for handguns. The handgun to shoot or carry is a personal part of the overall experience, and no one person is right or wrong in what they feel is the correct handgun.

I ran across the little P-64 in my local gun shop and I actually bought it for its Military/Police background. But after handling the pistol, I feel in love with the exact same things "dickfunk" stated in his post above! Is it the perfect pistol for all situations, NO, but to me it is perfect (well, the DA is a little heavy, LOL).

Remember, an opinion is like a nose, everyone has one!, LOL

b52stan · Post by **b52stan** » January 10th, 2006, 3:38 pm

I've bought, sold and traded many handguns for reasons like feed problems, trigger, wt., size, etc.. Except for my Glocks, this is the first one that feeds everything in most of them, is the perfect carry size in wt. and profile, and with the mainspring change, has a great trigger. And it's carry profile beats the $600 Glocks!

I did pay $165 out the door for them(1976, original grips), but what else could you ask for? I do have a nice Bulgarian Mak, but it has since been retired. It and my Glocks are not the perfect self defense carry gun like the P-64 is.

But you say it doesn't hold enough ammo? For self defense carry purposes, Ive concluded that that more bullets just mean more weight. Should the unlikely need to use it ever arises, 6 or 7 will do just fine, thank you.

And the CZAK is so cheap, so dependable, so easy to carry, so pretty, and so mean looking. What's not to love?

abwehr · Post by **abwehr** » January 10th, 2006, 4:55 pm

I wonder what the cost of these pistols were to the Polish Government when they were made, and what those same dollars would be today?

If this same pistol were made today in the US, I would speculate the retail price would be in the $350-400 range easy. Anyone else care to speculate?

fjblackesq · Post by **fjblackesq** » January 10th, 2006, 5:28 pm

Interesting qjuestion: Cost of production to the then government (commie) of Poland is irrelevant when compared to the cost of production in the free economy, now in Poland or elsewhere. China, today, would probably have a cost per unit of $10.00 I paiod $139.00 and it was a terrific buy---"lota gun for a little bucks" They must need the hard dollars to sell them out so low. Good for us!!!!!!

herrmannek · Post by **herrmannek** » January 10th, 2006, 6:36 pm

Production costs where high and this was one of the reasons for the introduction of the P-83, another great gun from our stables

On the other side nobody in America would buy, at the time unpopular&surplus gun, for a highier price, and I don't even want to think what would happen to them if they would be not sold to you...melting pot term bouncecs in my head

xelloss · Post by **xelloss** » January 10th, 2006, 6:43 pm

Hmmmm.... Wonder how long before the P-83 starts making its way over here... ;D ;D ;D

-Mark

abwehr · Post by **abwehr** » January 11th, 2006, 7:27 am

Your observations are interesting. I know the cost to many communist regimes was definetly irrelevant, but there was a cost associated with them. When manufacturing a product from a billet/bar of steel and having to cut all the metal, it is expensive. Most of the fine pistols were made prior to the common use of CNC machines we use today. As "herrmannek" stated, the cost was high and another weapon was designed to keep cost down and provide a reliable weapon. I also agree that if the pistols had been sold in this country during its manufacture, the cost would have prevented most folks from buying. A good example is the Walther PP & PPK; very well made, but expensive. many were sold, but not like the lower cost pistols.

I hope the P-83 will make it to our shores some day soon. I wouod never hesitate to buy a Polish made weapon as they have always provided quality!

bartos061 · Post by **bartos061** » January 11th, 2006, 7:41 am

Hi abwehr, Here is link to the polish forum about weapon.

http://strzelecka.net/viewtopic.php?t=307

See my closeups pictures of P-83. Unfortunately P-83 is a typical military product of the eighties. The quality was lower than in P-64 but the cost was lower too.

bartos

PS. I try to know what is military and commercial price of P-64 and P-83 in Poland

mongo · Post by **mongo** » January 11th, 2006, 9:56 am

two completely different firearms of which I enjoy shooting both and wouldn't hesitate to carry either.

nscale · Post by **nscale** » January 11th, 2006, 11:55 am

When I leave the house the P-64 is in my pocket. My Maks are in the box that I take to the range.

herrmannek · Post by **herrmannek** » January 11th, 2006, 12:28 pm

See my closeups pictures of P-83. Unfortunately P-83 is a typical military product of the eighties. The quality was lower than in P-64 but the cost was lower too.

I wouldn't say quality is lower when it comes to the weapons fuctioning(but thats civilian opinion based on otherones opinion, barts have a lot more experience so he can correct me), of course its less eye candy(finish, square look) because of technologies used in making it(I would say for a collector its a plus, P-83 is made in quite uncommon technology)... So I'm all thumbs up for the gun hiting USA markets.. P-83 is nothing we should be ashamed of...

bartos061 · Post by **bartos061** » January 11th, 2006, 12:55 pm

Hi Herrmannek, You have absolutely right. I would buy one for my collection unless our license problem and price. Today I was in a gun shop in Krakow. P-83 price is 600pln(191,37$) for new and russian makarov price is 350pln(111,63$) for new and 450pln(143,53) for used E.German.

But P-83 is a small piece of our weapon history and I like him.

bartos

tunnelrat · Post by **tunnelrat** » January 11th, 2006, 7:09 pm

When I leave the house the P-64 is in my pocket. My Maks are in the box that I take to the range.

I was thinking the same thing today. After shooting my P-64, I put a few magazines through my Mak. I like the Mak; it is a nice, reliable firearm.

When I was done shooting, I put the Mak in my case and my P-64 in my holster. The Mak is easier to shoot, but the P-64 is easier to carry.

The Unofficial P64 Resource Forum