Effectiveness of th 9x18

Post by **papabear** » September 19th, 2007, 10:41 pm

Carguy,

+1 and well said..........

papabear

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » September 20th, 2007, 1:25 am

You cut a hole through that lung and buddy that's stopping power! A lot of calibers do that really well at pistol range. I mean, think of all the military and police personnel around the world that used 9mm Maks for years and years! Gee! It's a very deadly weapon! As a side note, if because of armor or some other reason, you had to make a headshot, the P-64 and other Makarov handguns provide the accuracy for it, if you can do your part.

I do like a .45, don't get me wrong. I think the military ought to have them if that's what their battlefield data points out they need. But, I don't feel underarmed with 9x18.

The best way to survive a gunfight is not to get into one. It's how you handle your situations in life and whether you keep your head or not that counts most, not the size of your bore .

bZ.

blinddog · Post by **blinddog** » September 20th, 2007, 12:12 pm

Just remember, there have been some bad guys that have been shot commiting a crime that lived to sue the guy that shot him. I don't know how they could win, but some people are crazy eneough to let them win!!!

carguy · Post by **carguy** » September 20th, 2007, 3:23 pm

So the answer is to carry a CZ-82 with a 12 round mag with a
P-64 as back up!

I just am not sure if the jury would understand shooting the badguy 18 times...to "prevent" a law suit! :'(

grayfox · Post by **grayfox** » September 20th, 2007, 3:48 pm

There are a few of us on the forum that has been there. The bottom line is mindset, you can punch holes in paper all day long, but when the shtf, you have to be ready to go all the way, a blink can get you killed. If you hesitate, for what ever reason, your family will be visiting your grave site. Carrying a gun for self defense is not a TV or movie joke...its real. If you think you can't take a life, then leave the gun at home....and hope 911 gets the cops there soon enought.

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » September 20th, 2007, 5:28 pm

well said greyfox.. .One might not be happy using it and you might get the shakes afterward(dont worry they go away.) but remember a gun is a gun you carry it to use it if have to . My brother in law was just here a few minutes ago. we had this very discussion. he sid he wanted to get better at longer ranges in case he needed to... My standard answer ..that is fine for paper but if I am more then 15 fee, 20 feet or so away. I will duck ,bob, and run,like Cassius Clay(ALI to you young guys) if I have to. Not running away but using evasive action, give yourself a chance to evaluate or might even defuse . Figure anybody trying to shoot me at that range wont be that good or trained (I am also using the standard untrained BG as an example)...Of course circumstanses can change that real quick. .Now at close range and with point and shoot I will not hesitate and I will go for mass and will do what I have to do.
Make sure you can say and do that or leave it home..hope that doesnt sound harsh..

gunneyrabbit · Post by **gunneyrabbit** » September 25th, 2007, 9:39 pm

Manicmechanic,
Really great info, thanks for taking the time to share it, really an eye opener.
G.R.

carguy · Post by **carguy** » September 25th, 2007, 10:41 pm

I was reading Gunboards Makarov.com and someone (LEO) wrote about his past investigations of homicides. He claims (verified by a pathologist) that FMJ or JHP don't make much of a difference. Don't over penetrate like a 9x19 might so 9x18 FMJ is good but the slight expansion of JHP can slow the bullet and minimize penetration. The pathologist claims he often can't tell 9, 38, 40 or 45. Placement with good penetration is best. Tests like firing into water, jugs, phone books etc don't perform like the real thing...I think e called those stats junk. He carries S&B FMJ 9x18 when carrying his Mak.

Form your own opinion.

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » September 26th, 2007, 11:49 am

A hole is a hole. Hit your mark. Good advice.

nbender · Post by **nbender** » September 26th, 2007, 2:36 pm

Carguy, I think you refer to Erich's post. He's a lawyer, not LEO, and he posted that he has has been involved in a number of shooting cases.

He didn't say testing with various media was junk. He once wrote: "I consider them (jello tests) when I'm looking at "will a given round be likely to penetrate a decent distance?". He did make the point that the Dr. said he couldn't tell HP holes from FMJ holes.

Erich wrote quite a bit about his experiences with bullet wounds on this forum. Check out page 2 of this link:

http://p64.proboards67.com/index.cgi?bo ... 986&page=2

nbender · Post by **nbender** » September 27th, 2007, 9:54 pm

Carguy - I completely agree with your statement to "form your own opinion".

There is a lot of information available. Home tests can improve your understanding of terminal ballistics. Read up, or test away, but spend some time thinking through the data and form your own opinion,

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