Competition

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herrmannek
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Post by herrmannek » January 1st, 2006, 10:16 am

Bartos forgot to say this actualy is polish combat mode training :) Maybe after the sport event in wich polish cops were beaten by handicaped with 3 fingers and one eye(real event) polish police will reathink its firearm training for a ordinary cops, those willing and/or from HRT/SWAT have own training rutines, but wholer rest is a joke.. There was a time cops were carrying a cigarets in the holster instead of guns :)

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bartos061
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Post by bartos061 » January 1st, 2006, 10:32 am

Hi, herrmannek
Not exactly, From this day(01.01.2006) we have new drills for shooting(every weapon - pistols,riflle... tanks etc.). There is no shooting like this drill #1 anymore(no points counting - now we count only hitting). But there is one shooting with this distance ;). Police has also new drills from about year. I think that our new drills are quite good now. You have absolutely right about shooting training in regular(not SF and airborne) military unit and by the ordinary cops. But I think that all depends from superiors only. When they are normally thinking guys You can do many things in training(not exactly things from manuals) ;D
bartos

PS.
That is true with cigarettes in holster :-/ I see also handcuffs >:(
Last edited by bartos061 on January 1st, 2006, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

mikethewreck
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Post by mikethewreck » January 1st, 2006, 10:39 am

I hadn't thought about outdoor carry as justification for shooting at longer ranges. If you're being stalked by a feral dog or mountain lion, the long range shot would be good to have mastered...

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bartos061
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Post by bartos061 » January 1st, 2006, 10:51 am

Comone guys this is only for fun.
25 meters is about 27,35 yards but I think that 27 will be good.

I found also grades for reserve soldiers:
(5)Very good – 35 points and more.
(4)Good – 30 to 34 points.
(3)Enough – 25 to 29 points.
(2)Not enough – 0 to 24 points.

Some soldiers in Poland has in the past a big problem with this drill but after the training was OK(enough)

We shoot with SA mode of course but when somebody do this in DA - He will be real MASTER.

I try to write something about rest of drills for P-64 in the future
Good luck
bartos

herrmannek
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Post by herrmannek » January 1st, 2006, 11:08 am

Polish routines are a lot of fun :) .. You should know that because we were commie country there is a lot of somewhat strange traditions like ...
-carrying gun obligatory without a round in a chamber(also glocks and walthers p-99 with is completly ridiculous), this introduces a special drawing routine with racking the slide in the middle of it...

- there is also that warning shout/shot policy* that when using a p-64 will leave you with mag half empty on just warnings :)

There is a lot of funny things collectors like you should know :)


*Now changed a little, so cop can shoot without warning if there is no time for a warning, but to get to that point few cops literaly died :| ...
Last edited by herrmannek on January 1st, 2006, 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bartos061
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Post by bartos061 » January 1st, 2006, 11:23 am

There is one more funny and sad thing. In Warsaw our capital city - cops must have an sticker on grip and magazine to proof that they don't remove mag during they're patrol. ;D ??? :'(

novgarod
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Post by novgarod » January 1st, 2006, 12:51 pm

Bartos - take a look at my earlier post on "competition" and see if the size of the bullseye and rings on the target agree with yours or please correct for us. I am going out this afternoon with my CZAK to shoot at a paper plate with a 120 mm (5") diameter bullseye drawn in the middle. This is a cheap target and a good start. Thanks for getting this competition started and it's a great way to start the new year!

I don't smoke, so I will put a few Christmas cookies in my holster instead of a pack of cigarettes! LOL

fjblackesq
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Post by fjblackesq » January 1st, 2006, 3:57 pm

COOKIES/CIGARETTES IN HOLSTERS: I can remember (but won"t tell) of a lot of other things that the U.S. GIs stored away in the .45 hip holsters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FJBLACKESQ

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bartos061
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Post by bartos061 » January 1st, 2006, 4:03 pm

Hi novgarod, sorry that I'm writing now not earlier
Original 23p target has:
10 ring 100 mm 3,937" diameter
9 ring 200 mm 7,874" diameter
8 ring 300 mm 11.811" diameter
7 ring 400 mm 15,748" diameter
6 ring 500 mm 19,685" diameter

bartos
Last edited by bartos061 on January 1st, 2006, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

novgarod
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Post by novgarod » January 1st, 2006, 8:46 pm

Back from tackling the Polish Drill #1 - tough, but great fun
I shot 4 scores of 5 rounds each (labeling each hole with the 1s, 2s, etc); used your ring diameters sent today, Bartos, and shot at 27 yds

Score #1 10,9,7,6,6 =38 S&B 95 gr
Score #2 10, 9,7,6,5 =37 S&B 95 gr
Score #3 9,8,7,7,6 = 37 Fiocchi 95 gr
Score #4 10,9,9,9,8 =45 Fiocchi 95 gr (guy next to me with a .45 cal left and I ate a
cookie from my holster before score #4 - Ha!)

I was shooting at a 9" paper plate on a clean sheet of cardboard; I was shooting high, so on the last score I held at 6 o'clock on the plate. My CZAK has the 18# Wolff spring.

Who will get the first 50 in our forum??

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bartos061
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Post by bartos061 » January 2nd, 2006, 8:17 am

Hi novgarod, Good Job. "45" is a nice score.
bartos

metzgeri
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Post by metzgeri » January 4th, 2006, 8:56 pm

Mikethewreck,
Using the law of ratios (and not boring you with math), the easiest equivalent for us with an 8.5X11in. letter size paper is the following:

Resize bartos061's target to fit 10.25inches square using your favorite imaging software. This target can be printed out on a regular letter size piece of paper but the 7 and 6 rings are chopped off the bottom of the page (who needs them??? we're all expert marksmen here!!!). After resizing, print the target out in Landscape, NOT Portrait orientation.

This 10.25in square target can then be shot at a distance of approximately 9.5 yards (9.4907 yards to be exact) and be equivalent to the 75 cm target at 25 meters. This is the way it’s done for the Army’s M16 zero range. Zero is to be done at 100m but they use a scaled down target and shoot at 25m.

If this is too short of a distance for you, let me know and I'll try putting the target on two pieces of paper and calculate the range to set the target. I'd post the resized target here, but I don't know how to attach it to this reply!!??

Metzgeri

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tunnelrat
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Post by tunnelrat » January 5th, 2006, 2:37 pm

Self defence isn't justified at 25 yards? maybe in your world.
No, categorically NO!
Self defence is not justified at 25 yards.

Not unless maybe your attacker is armed with a rifle and you have absolutely no other way to escape.

What world do you live in...?

b52stan
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Post by b52stan » January 5th, 2006, 3:35 pm

Rat, put a sock in it! If you bothered to read previous posts for this thread, you would realize that this is a friendly accuracy competition started by a Polish Army Officer. The people on this board know all about defensive shooting.

And by the way, Poland isn't "commie" these days. You'll find their soldiers arm in arm with ours in the Sand Pit right now. In fact they are some of the main contributors on this board

I recommend you thoroughly review subject threads from the beginning of each thread, before jumping to conclusions, and making yourself look silly.. And remember, this is the P-64 board. For Mak stuff, go to Gunboards.com.

Just trying to save you some embarrassment.
Last edited by b52stan on January 5th, 2006, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tunnelrat
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Post by tunnelrat » January 5th, 2006, 4:32 pm

Rat, put a sock in it!
Sock inserted per your request...
If you bothered to read previous posts for this thread, you would realize that this is a friendly accuracy competition started by a Polish Army Officer. The people on this board know all about defensive shooting.
I did indeed read with interest the previous posts. Somebody is doing some very impressive shooting at long range with these tiny sights!

However, I was addressing specifically a post referring to self defense:
Self defence isn't justified at 25 yards? maybe in your world.
And, no, I don't agree that self defense is justified at 25 yards. At least not in where I live unless under very peculiar circumstances.
And by the way, Poland isn't "commie" these days.
Of course not. I did not say that it was, nor did I mean to imply that. However, my P-64 was made in 1974, while the communist government was still in place. That is why you will often find Makarovs and Radoms referred to as "commie guns" on many different message boards. I intended no offense and I doubt that any was taken.
You'll find their soldiers arm in arm with ours in the Sand Pit right now.
Yes, my son is over there right now and has made me aware of the contribution of our eastern European allies.
In fact they are some of the main contributors on this board
I am fully aware of that also. I have been frankly impressed by the shooting drill they have outlined, and I appreciate the help they have provided with the manuals.
I recommend you thoroughly review subject threads from the beginning of each thread, before jumping to conclusions, and making yourself look silly..
I dunno, friend, which of us looks the sillier.
And remember, this is the P-64 board. For Mak stuff, go to Gunboards.com.
I am aware of that, too. All my posts have referred directly and specifically to P-64's. I recommend you thoroughly review my posts, before jumping to conclusions, and making yourself look silly...
Just trying to save you some embarrassment.
Thank you for your kind concern and your warm welcome.

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