Went to the range today.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » July 17th, 2007, 5:29 pm

Took my p-64 to the range today. Fired 50 rnds of norinco fmj and 50 rnds of brown bear laquered fmj. did not have one jam or ftf. it was flawless with these rounds. but when I went to fire the silver bear fmj and hp's it jammed after every first round. I cleaned the gun and feed ramp, lubed it. prior to shooting. I guess mine is finnicky and will only take certain bulletts. I will just stick to the norinco and brown bear. This gun is accurate. I enjoyed the range time. Regards Daniel

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » July 17th, 2007, 8:58 pm

If the Brown Bear cycled, the Silver Bear should cycle. Hmmm? - :-/ Did you preload mags, and use different mags for the Silver Bear?

daniel · Post by **daniel** » July 18th, 2007, 10:26 am

used the same mags. It just won't shoot anything other than the brown bear or norinco, I tried about 7 mags of silver bear hp's and fmj, It jammed every single time.

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » July 18th, 2007, 5:23 pm

This is still the origional shooting you did that you mentioned in the topic post, right. You haven't gone back and tried The Silver Bear again after cleaning the gun...? The reason I ask is that the chamber, action, or the inside walls of the mags could have become fouled from the first ammo, and the jambing just a coincidence. Is the Silver Bear you used the zinc-coated 94gr, or some earlier issue?

Actually this sounds like a dirty mag problem to me.

Norm or Nbender may have something when they check in.

duggi60 · Post by **duggi60** » July 18th, 2007, 10:00 pm

Its most likely a mag related problem -- clean & lube after a
complete disassembly.

Post by **normsutton** » July 19th, 2007, 4:08 am

bzinggg

Got me because silver bear and brown bear are the same ammo one has a is zinc plated the other lacquered ,same powder and bullets ,in fact the silver bear ammo should feed better no lacquer to gum up the works

NORM

9x18shooter · Post by **9x18shooter** » July 19th, 2007, 9:14 am

Norm, I was thinking the same thing. Silver Bear HP feeds flawlessly through all my guns and I would think it should feed better than the lacquer coated Brown Bear. I would think that if the feed lips were tweaked it would have the problem with all ammo but maybe not.

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » July 19th, 2007, 11:14 am

bzinggg

Got me because silver bear and brown bear are the same ammo one has a is zinc plated the other lacquered ,same powder and bullets ,in fact the silver bear ammo should feed better no lacquer to gum up the works

NORM

Yeah, lacquer gumming was what I was thinking about when I suggested it might be fouled from the ammo he had just fired.
With a good cleaning, he should be able to shoot any of it and not have problems.

bZinggg.

garry · Post by **garry** » July 19th, 2007, 12:42 pm

Hello Daniel ! Can you please measure the Overall cartridge length on some of those Silver Bear FMJ's? Perhaps some were not seated deep enough ? If they were too long they wouldn't go into the magazine or would stick in it . Short cartridges will sometimes FTF because of too much "wiggle room".
Something I notice from reloading the 9x18MAKarov cartridge was that the length of a few cartridges that I made while "experimenting/learning" , were a bit TOO long and hung up in the magazine when I loaded them . I had already loaded 3 cartridges into the mag, when the next one got stuck . It was not wedged in badly but i had to push down on one end of it to release it. That got me to thinking that if i opened up the front of the mag with a claw hammer and a chisel , then the longer bullets will fit better !! I'm kidding there . I did NO such thing.
Point is, I measured the length of the mag and the length of the bullets and now i have bullets that fit well but have plenty of room to move as they should. I would think that the shorter the bullet , the more room for error(slamming in crooked,etc...) .

My micrometer doesn't have inch scale, so the measurement is 24.80mm up to Max. overall length of 25.40mm . You can easily convert Inches to MM by dividing the mm by 25.4. example:
24.80 divided by 25.4 = .97 inch. and 25.60 divided by 25.4 = 1.00 inch.
I use Speer 90gr.HP(.364) and Sierra 95gr JHP(.363). Both of these feed great if within those length tolerances. I will look for NBender's 9x18 Ammo Charts to find the length of that Silver Bear Ammo. Maybe I can spot the problem that way. G

nbender · Post by **nbender** » July 19th, 2007, 1:17 pm

Although many claim that Russian lacquer is a problem, I have never been able to confirm that the lacquer used on Russian bullets will melt off in a chamber or clog a gas port on an automatic rifle. I've read tests where people have taken a blow torch to a Wolf casings and not seen lacquer melting. I've also read that it isn't true lacquer at all; it's a potassium nitrate derivitive. That's just second-hand information. Maybe someday I'll get around to trying to test the Brown Bear and Wolf lacquer, or one of the trusted members here would test and post to confirm these other studies.

The "Box O' Truth" went after investigating the lacquer on Wolf but got a bit side-tracked. Their results are interesting though - they said don't fire brass ammo after using Wolf. They deduced the steel Wolf cases did not expand sufficiently in an AR-15 so that carbon deposits were created that subsequent brass casings adhered to.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

Well, I don't know if that's real applicable to the P-64 or to Daniels question.

Like others, I don't know why Silver Bear would not feed. If it's the older Silver Bear, 115 or 120-grain, there would be a more obvious reply - that stuff could vary wildly in length. But the newer 94-grain ammunition has been pretty consistent in my experience. Perhaps you found an off-spec box with long cartridge lengths; mistakes happen on the production line.

pshootr · Post by **pshootr** » July 19th, 2007, 1:28 pm

Another way to convert mm to inches (or almost anything to almost anything for that matter) is to type "24.80mm in inches" in any Google search box and hit "Enter". If you want to convert currency it is best to enter "100 U.S. dollars in British pounds" rather than "100 dollars in pounds" as other nations besides USA and UK use their own dollars and pounds. You can even do weird stuff such as "100 trillion miles in Parsecs". Have fun.

Post by **papabear** » July 19th, 2007, 6:03 pm

PshootR,

Works like a charm.........thanks ;D

papabear

nbender · Post by **nbender** » July 20th, 2007, 12:42 am

Is this post now about converting mm to inches?

Ok - I use:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/

daniel · Post by **daniel** » July 23rd, 2007, 8:25 pm

Thanks for everyones help, I will use silver bears when I shoot again and then switch to the norinco and laquered shells and see if there is any difference. Regards Dan

Post by **dfunk** » July 25th, 2007, 1:04 pm

Its most likely a mag related problem -- clean & lube after a
complete disassembly.

Just no lube on the mag!

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