Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

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Granpooba
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Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Granpooba » February 14th, 2018, 2:39 pm

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anybody has ever come across any P64's that were " Never Used or Unissued " :?:

I have seen one or two advertised for sale as being unissued. But, you could tell by the pictures alone that they were used, thus it had to have been issued to somebody. :roll:

Would like to purchase one and have been doing a little searching but can not find one. Even messaged folk in Europe, but to date have come up with nothing :(

If anybody knows where one could be purchased, your help would be greatly appreciated .

Thinking, maybe one just does not exist. :shock:

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Weasel640
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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Weasel640 » February 14th, 2018, 8:58 pm

These are Surplus pistols. They had belonged to Poland for some time, and sold in huge lots to commercial vendors with no records. So no, no one can say for sure that a P-64 has not been used or issued. However most vendors will inspect them by the lot and give them a grade, i.e. Very Good, Excellent, Unissued, etc... These are just best guess grades based on a quick field type inspection. They don't always used the right pictures either. So if it's a vendor, the gun pictured is most likely not the one you will get. But if it's a personal sale then the pictures should be the same gun.
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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Granpooba » February 15th, 2018, 12:40 am

Weasel640 wrote:
February 14th, 2018, 8:58 pm
These are Surplus pistols. They had belonged to Poland for some time, and sold in huge lots to commercial vendors with no records. So no, no one can say for sure that a P-64 has not been used or issued. However most vendors will inspect them by the lot and give them a grade, i.e. Very Good, Excellent, Unissued, etc... These are just best guess grades based on a quick field type inspection. They don't always used the right pictures either. So if it's a vendor, the gun pictured is most likely not the one you will get. But if it's a personal sale then the pictures should be the same gun.
How well I know as I have already purchased two from surplus vendors. Both were advertised to be in " Excellent " condition. The first one from CLASSIC FIREARMS, turned out to be about 85% quality. I contacted them and they returned my funds for " Pick of the Best ".

The second one I purchased from DK FIREARMS. Had it apart recently and I can not find any evidence of it ever being fired. Their is a mark from the slide being cycled on the frame, but that could have been caused by cycling it by hand. Absolutely no marks on or in magazine. Appears to have never held any ammo. Barrel looks like nothing fired thru it. And no marks on outside of barrel. Finally, feed ramp shows no marks what so ever. As if no ammo had ever been cycled. I would give the quality of this firearm about a 98 or 99% rating. Would give it a higher mark, but have not fired it yet.

I can not speak high enough about DK FIREARMS, as they really communicated well with me and did supply what I was asking for.

I have been looking for and just wondering if their is a P64 out their in the world for sale, that somebody can prove that it has never been fired and is in new condition. Then, I would purchase it just as a collector.

Yea, yea, I know that I am asking a lot. But, what the hell, I am POLISH :!: :lol:

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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Weasel640 » February 15th, 2018, 11:30 pm

I'd say it sounds like you have already found one. These were made for the military and police. Not for commercial sale. Unfortunately they don't come with records about each P_64s history.
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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by GuitarmanNick » February 15th, 2018, 11:46 pm

I bought one from Classic about a year ago and it was unfired. I paid the hand select fee and was very pleased.
The slide had been operated a little as evident by the marks in the finish, but like the one you have, it had no marks at all on the feed ramp or in the chamber.
After I put 100 rounds through it, there were marks at the chamber opening, feed ramp and chamber.
Some have insisted that all of these guns were test fired at the factory, but mine definitely was not!
Since mine was made in 1970, it has no significant value. I bought it as a shooter and it is fun to shoot even though it smarts a little.

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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Ketchman » February 16th, 2018, 1:15 am

Also, since they were NOT meant to be sold commercially and were meant only for the military and the police, the chances that each one was test fired with at least 2-3 rounds is extremely high, as they were all made in the Radom factory which has a great reputation for quality, and they would have test fired each and every one as part of their QC, I would think.
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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Granpooba » February 16th, 2018, 8:48 am

Weasel640 wrote:
February 15th, 2018, 11:30 pm
I'd say it sounds like you have already found one. These were made for the military and police. Not for commercial sale. Unfortunately they don't come with records about each P_64s history.
Oh well, guess I'll just keep looking. I'm retired, thus what the hell else do I have to do :?: :lol:

But, I do know that I have an excellent example of the P64. If anybody was to view it, they would think that it just came out of the factory. :shock:

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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Curly1 » February 16th, 2018, 1:16 pm

+1 Ketch I think it is standard practice to test fire before it goes out the door at any gun manufacturer.
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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Granpooba » February 16th, 2018, 10:31 pm

Ketchman wrote:
February 16th, 2018, 1:15 am
Also, since they were NOT meant to be sold commercially and were meant only for the military and the police, the chances that each one was test fired with at least 2-3 rounds is extremely high, as they were all made in the Radom factory which has a great reputation for quality, and they would have test fired each and every one as part of their QC, I would think.
I could be wrong as I thought one other time that I was wrong, but I was mistaken. That all manufacturers test fire their products before shipping them off to the distributor / customer. Many also include the casing from the test fired cartridge.

Being test fired at the factory, does not make the firearm not new when it goes out the door. As you say, it is only part of production and QC.

Having retired from a career in aviation, I know when an aircraft comes out of the factory, it has many systems checks and test flights. When the customer takes delivery of the aircraft it is considered new and warranty starts from date of delivery. Same as our auto industry. Actually just about all industries follow the same policies.

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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Ketchman » February 17th, 2018, 11:02 am

Now as to the question of finish NOT being disturbed, I know that some times parts are tested prior to having their final finish applied so they have to apperance of never having been "used" and Radom may have followed that practice.
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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Granpooba » February 17th, 2018, 2:19 pm

Ketchman wrote:
February 17th, 2018, 11:02 am
Now as to the question of finish NOT being disturbed, I know that some times parts are tested prior to having their final finish applied so they have to apperance of never having been "used" and Radom may have followed that practice.
I guess now, I have another question Ketch. I have always thought, read, been told, etc., that having a firearm finished, refinished, etc , could change, or alter the operation, timing, performance of the firearm.

If parts are tested, be it at any factory and then a final finish applied. Would it not change the performance/operation of that firearm :?: Unless, perhaps the engineers have already planned the final finish into the firearms operation :?:

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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Granpooba » February 17th, 2018, 2:22 pm

Granpooba wrote:
February 17th, 2018, 2:19 pm
Ketchman wrote:
February 17th, 2018, 11:02 am
Now as to the question of finish NOT being disturbed, I know that some times parts are tested prior to having their final finish applied so they have to apperance of never having been "used" and Radom may have followed that practice.
I guess now, I have another question Ketch. I have always thought, read, been told, etc., that having a firearm finished, refinished, etc , could change, or alter the operation, timing, performance of the firearm.

If parts are tested, be it at any factory and then a final finish applied. Would it not change the performance/operation of that firearm :?: Unless, perhaps the engineers have already planned the final finish into the firearms operation :?:
Just had to add that perhaps firearms are engineered with loose enough tolerances, that applying the final finish after testing, may not make any difference in its operation / performance :?:

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Re: Unissued / Never Used P64 ?

Post by Ketchman » February 17th, 2018, 10:18 pm

Considering that the blueing process used on most firearms of this era did not add any thickness to the parts it did not change the tolerances at all so it could easily be done after firing just a quick polish of the metal to remove scratches and then blue it. Now that is not correct with parkerizing or with the shake /spray and bake on finishes that are used now which will change tolerances because they are a layer on top of the metal. Rust blueing only affects the surface layer of the metal itself hence no layer on top of the metal and why blueing is so easily removed. That is why with Cerecoat or hard chroming you must be very careful about applying it to internal parts or parts that have tight tolerances such a sight dovetails.
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