Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

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Foxtail
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Foxtail » February 1st, 2018, 7:51 pm

Weasel640, you make good points concerning the SCCY vs the P64, I had never considered that. I just noticed that very similar guns have very different recoils. I had just put it down to grip geometry.

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Weasel640
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Weasel640 » February 1st, 2018, 10:05 pm

greysaber wrote:
January 31st, 2018, 9:50 pm
http://www.marschalgrips.com/hires-p64/P64.HTM These? Very tempting. As I said, I very much like the style of the weapon, but the knuckle cracking is a (temporary) deal breaker.

It's bad enough that I'm wondering if maybe I'm missing something, thus the thread. I don't 'think' I have particularly weird hands.
Yes those are them. They have a lot of different options to choose. For you, I'd recommend at least getting the extended beaver-tail option.
Foxtail wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 7:51 pm
Weasel640, you make good points concerning the SCCY vs the P64, I had never considered that. I just noticed that very similar guns have very different recoils. I had just put it down to grip geometry.
They are not similar at all!

I do not understand why you are returning to say this. At this point it's kind of like comparing a 2017 BMW M4 to a 1985 Toyota Tercel. Yes they are both two door coupes, BUT they are very different in design and whats under the hood. Yes, the SCCY and P-P64 are small pistols, BUT they very different in design and whats under the hood! Why continue to maintain this notion that they are similar? They are not!
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Foxtail » February 1st, 2018, 10:37 pm

Weasel, Ok, I'll put it this way, if you put one on top of the other they are very close to the same size and shape. They are about the same weight. I can use the same molded owb holster for both. i.e "similar". Not the same. I understand your point that they function completely differently, but I'm not referring to how they function. I am not familiar with cars at all, but if the two you mentioned are "similar" in size and shape, then to me they are "similar" cars. Not equivalent, not made the same, not the same quality, not comparable. "Similar". As in "kinda look the same". Oxford English Dictionary: 'Definition of similar - having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.' My use of the word similar is consistent with this definition. You seem to have a more restrictive interpretation of the word.
I believe this entire disagreement stems from you and I using a different interpretation of the word similar. Basically in my view it doesn't matter how they function in order to be "similar".

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Weasel640
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Weasel640 » February 1st, 2018, 11:55 pm

Foxtail wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 10:37 pm
Weasel, Ok, I'll put it this way, if you put one on top of the other they are very close to the same size and shape. They are about the same weight. I can use the same molded owb holster for both. i.e "similar". Not the same. I understand your point that they function completely differently, but I'm not referring to how they function. I am not familiar with cars at all, but if the two you mentioned are "similar" in size and shape, then to me they are "similar" cars. Not equivalent, not made the same, not the same quality, not comparable. "Similar". As in "kinda look the same". Oxford English Dictionary: 'Definition of similar - having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.' My use of the word similar is consistent with this definition. You seem to have a more restrictive interpretation of the word.
I believe this entire disagreement stems from you and I using a different interpretation of the word similar. Basically in my view it doesn't matter how they function in order to be "similar".
If you honestly think that these two pistols meet the above criteria for the definition of "similar" then we disagree on more than just a single word. I feel that our knowledge base of firearms is so different that we will not agree.
P-64.jpg
vs
CPX-2.jpg
CPX-2.jpg (64.77 KiB) Viewed 1226 times
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by xcc_rider » February 2nd, 2018, 12:02 am

You can try shifting your grip a bit to move the tail into the web of your hand. It will make the reach to the trigger a bit longer but it can help. You can also put a few layers of adhesive tape over the web and knuckle to cushion it a bit.

I bit the bullet and purchased a PI grip and it made a world of difference. I highly recommend them and the extended mag release.

Any way you look at it, it's a harsh recoil for a gun it's size but it's not the worst out there. Try shooting a 357 or 45 long colt derringer and you'll start to enjoy the P64 recoil more and more.

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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Cobalt-60 » February 2nd, 2018, 9:15 am

A combination of recoil spring change, some change of grip (I have found that a Hogue Handall Jr. rubber slip-on works best for me), and a change in how you approach holding the pistol are what is necessary. Direct blowback pistols are not as forgiving of limp-wristed holds as Browning-style are. You have to be intentional in your hold, almost pushing forward to get the most out of them. If your spread the recoil impulse just a little (through the alternate grip options), have the heavier recoil spring, AND lean into the discharge (cannot think of another way to describe it), the pain diminishes significantly. That being said, this is a very small, fixed barrel, blowback pistol with the largest calibre that is really possible in a blowback pistol of this size, so of course it is not going to be "comfortable" to shoot (the PPK in .380 ACP is even worse with more sharp edges!!!)

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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Foxtail » February 2nd, 2018, 12:07 pm

Weasel640 wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 11:55 pm

If you honestly think that these two pistols meet the above criteria for the definition of "similar" then we disagree on more than just a single word. I feel that our knowledge base of firearms is so different that we will not agree.
Since the properties of the two guns are not in dispute, your knowledge base of firearms, as vast and comprehensive as it undoubtedly is, is completely irrelevant to this discussion. We agree on the properties of the guns. What we disagree on is whether those properties would render them as similar or not, therefore this ENTIRE disagreement is on the range of meaning of the word 'similar', thereby rendering this one of the silliest discussions I have ever had on a forum.

I think there is no point in continuing this. Best wishes, Foxtail

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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by jb1911 » February 2nd, 2018, 1:15 pm

If shooting the P-64 doesn't cause you more than a little pain, you are probably dead.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Weasel640 » February 3rd, 2018, 3:08 pm

Foxtail wrote:
February 2nd, 2018, 12:07 pm
Weasel640 wrote:
February 1st, 2018, 11:55 pm

If you honestly think that these two pistols meet the above criteria for the definition of "similar" then we disagree on more than just a single word. I feel that our knowledge base of firearms is so different that we will not agree.
Since the properties of the two guns are not in dispute, your knowledge base of firearms, as vast and comprehensive as it undoubtedly is, is completely irrelevant to this discussion. We agree on the properties of the guns. What we disagree on is whether those properties would render them as similar or not, therefore this ENTIRE disagreement is on the range of meaning of the word 'similar', thereby rendering this one of the silliest discussions I have ever had on a forum.

I think there is no point in continuing this. Best wishes, Foxtail
Lets break this down. You said: 'Definition of similar - having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.'

-resemblance in appearance: NO absolutely not. The CPX-2 9mm has the appearance of a modern handgun at a glance is obviously made of a Polymer. If you look at a picture that shows the back strap you can clearly see the cushion design and that the hammer is internal. From the front you can clearly see that there is a rod for the recoil spring, that indicates a totally different internal design. Based on the apparent thickness of the handle and the fact that it is a 9mm pistol you could even infer that the magazine is double stacked. The P-64 has none of this in appearance.

-resemblance in character: NO. Lets see totally different caliber, material, function (Blow Back vs Locking), internal vs external hammers, Safety vs no Safety, external Slide Lock vs internal, double stack vs single stack magazine, horrendous Trigger weight vs not, etc, etc... The weight is even totally off from what you are saying the P-64 is at about 22 ounces whereas the CPX-2 9mm is at about 15 ounces. The only thing here that is even remotely similar is size.

-resemblance in quantity: NO. If we are talking production the P-64 has the CPX-2 beat. If we are talking capacity 10 round vs 6 rounds is far from similar.

With your logic I could say that Tide Pods are similar 'in size' to Prunes. But you wouldn't go around eating Tide Pods would you?



To put it back into the context of the original post: All of these differences in character absolutely do play a part in the difference of felt recoil. They are not similar at all in this aspect and really the CPX-2 had NO place in this conversation. But you decided to throw it in, as if size is a sole contributing factor to felt recoil.
Therefore this ENTIRE disagreement is on the fact that you had NO idea what you were talking about when you decided to compare the two. If you can't see why comparing these two is not relevant to this conversation, maybe spend more time reading about how Firearms function than looking up single words in the dictionary.
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Ketchman » February 3rd, 2018, 3:33 pm

potatoe, tomatoe. This started about someone saying the P64 hurt him when he shot it. Can you get back to the main focus if this post.
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Weasel640 » February 3rd, 2018, 3:46 pm

Ketchman wrote:
February 3rd, 2018, 3:33 pm
potatoe, tomatoe. This started about someone saying the P64 hurt him when he shot it. Can you get back to the main focus if this post.
Exactly, but not tide pods...

The main focus has been answered. In short: Changing the springs help (but he has already done that), changing the grips and/or adding cushion helps.

Something that has yet to be brought up is that shooting gloves help. If going this route you want to make sure to get a size smaller than normal as you want them to be tight.
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by GuitarmanNick » February 8th, 2018, 2:21 pm

I have change the recoil spring and installed the PolishIron grips on my P-64 and it still hurts my hand when I shoot it. There is a spot on my right thumb where the skin gets ripped up every time I shoot it. This happens with or without the PolishIron grips. I have recently added a set of shooting gloves to my range bag! Never needed them before, but then never had a 9 x 18 Mak chambered gun until this.

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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by greysaber » February 8th, 2018, 5:55 pm

Hey folks, update. I have ordered the P64 grips from polish iron, but I'm returning my p64 and ordering one in better condition from classic firearms, so I don't know how well the grips will work until next week, but I'll keep you posted.

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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by Ketchman » February 8th, 2018, 7:37 pm

Good choice on the grips. Please let us know how they work out for you.
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Re: Recoil pain. Am I holding it wrong?

Post by xcc_rider » February 10th, 2018, 1:37 am

You'll like them. I put 100 rnds thru mine a couple of days ago and had no issues (pain, bruising, blood, etc) at all.
Only problem I had was finding the ejected cases for reloading. They do fly...

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