Don't change the springs.

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Ketchman
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Ketchman » March 27th, 2017, 12:49 pm

Please, butt in more often. Always enjoyed reading your point of view. And glad to hear you take your reloading that seriously. I just read an online article for Guns magazine about some of the high speed comeaparts that can happen from mistakes in primers, seating depths, OAL errors, etc. that was very eye opening. As I don't reload yet it got me thinking.
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Ketchman
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Ketchman » March 27th, 2017, 12:50 pm

Hey OG17, did you get to test your stock springs?
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by robhic » March 27th, 2017, 4:24 pm

Ketchman wrote:Please, butt in more often. Always enjoyed reading your point of view. And glad to hear you take your reloading that seriously. I just read an online article for Guns magazine about some of the high speed comeaparts that can happen from mistakes in primers, seating depths, OAL errors, etc. that was very eye opening. As I don't reload yet it got me thinking.
Tell me about it! Until I started to get into re-loading, I had NO IDEA how much I didn't know that I didn't know. :shock: There are a LOT of things to know and to watch. Little things can make a BIG difference. Since I've grown fond of my 10 fingers I figured I'd try my best to keep 'em!
- Robert

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Ketchman
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Ketchman » March 27th, 2017, 6:56 pm

That's a good thing cause it's hard to take someones advice if your missing those things! :mrgreen:
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OG17
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by OG17 » March 27th, 2017, 6:58 pm

Ketchman wrote:Hey OG17, did you get to test your stock springs?
Tomorrow, I hope.

Ketchman
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Ketchman » March 27th, 2017, 8:09 pm

looking forward to the results.
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by superc » April 9th, 2017, 1:17 pm

I can''t imagine carrying it with a chamber loaded and the safety off. That would just be asking for an accident. Just keep the safety on and learn how to swipe it off if you draw the pistol.

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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by robhic » April 12th, 2017, 10:21 am

superc wrote:I can''t imagine carrying it with a chamber loaded and the safety off. That would just be asking for an accident. Just keep the safety on and learn how to swipe it off if you draw the pistol.
Carrying loaded and off-safety is discouraged but it's actually not a safety - it's a "decocker'. So, you can load one in the chamber, decock and put in a full mag or just leave the mag you loaded from in place. That can give you 6+1 and the gun is decocked (point it downrange to be sure!).

Like I said it is DISCOURAGED but that'll make it as safe as possible (heavy-ish trigger helps) if you want to think about it.
- Robert

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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Ketchman » April 12th, 2017, 12:32 pm

Chamber loaded, "safety /decocker" off, hammer down with this trigger pull is safer than all the millions of lighter trigger pull DA revolvers (anyone here EVER carry a J frame .38 special in your pocket?) that are carried every single day with NO ONE EVER saying they are unsafe because the "safety is off". Folks, the safety is between your ears, use it wisely and you will be fine. :mrgreen:
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by GuitarmanNick » April 12th, 2017, 12:37 pm

After careful examination of the mechanism on my 1970 P-64, I can see that when the safety selector is placed in the middle position(yes, there is a middle position), there is a hammer block that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin. Now, dropping the pistol may still cause it to fire if there is a round in the chamber(not likely because of the firing pin spring), but I am fairly confident that is is the safest way to carry with a round chambered. This is how I carry it! If I need to use it, the time loading a round into the chamber could be the difference between life and death.

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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by superc » April 12th, 2017, 4:36 pm

robhic wrote: Carrying loaded and off-safety is discouraged but it's actually not a safety - it's a "decocker'. So, you can load one in the chamber, decock and put in a full mag or just leave the mag you loaded from in place. That can give you 6+1 and the gun is decocked (point it downrange to be sure!).

Like I said it is DISCOURAGED but that'll make it as safe as possible (heavy-ish trigger helps) if you want to think about it.
I am sorry you are 100% inaccurate. It very much IS a safety because in addition to the irrelevancy of decocking and locking the trigger, moving the switch rotates an internal block to the firing pin into position and a firing pin block is the ultimate safety.

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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Weasel640 » April 12th, 2017, 6:15 pm

superc wrote:
robhic wrote: Carrying loaded and off-safety is discouraged but it's actually not a safety - it's a "decocker'. So, you can load one in the chamber, decock and put in a full mag or just leave the mag you loaded from in place. That can give you 6+1 and the gun is decocked (point it downrange to be sure!).

Like I said it is DISCOURAGED but that'll make it as safe as possible (heavy-ish trigger helps) if you want to think about it.
I am sorry you are 100% inaccurate. It very much IS a safety because in addition to the irrelevancy of decocking and locking the trigger, moving the switch rotates an internal block to the firing pin into position and a firing pin block is the ultimate safety.
superc is absolutely correct. It is a Safety, plain and simple. It was originally designed to be a Safety, hence the Firing Pin Block, as well as the fact that it does not spring back to Fire. Just because the Safety has a Decocking Feature, it does NOT make it solely for Decocking. If you compared to the Beretta 92FS, the Safety also Decocks but it is still a Safety, while on the Beretta 92G the lever is intended to be a Decocker only so it springs back to the Firing position.
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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Foxtail » April 12th, 2017, 8:46 pm

superc wrote:I can''t imagine carrying it with a chamber loaded and the safety off. That would just be asking for an accident. Just keep the safety on and learn how to swipe it off if you draw the pistol.
I carry my Taurus 738 with a loaded chamber, and I carried my SCCY cpx2 with a loaded chamber, and neither of those even has an external safety. They are intended to be carried with one in the chamber and no safety. So carrying my P64 with one in the chamber and safety off is the same thing.

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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by superc » April 13th, 2017, 12:02 am

Foxtail wrote:I carry my Taurus 738 with a loaded chamber, and I carried my SCCY cpx2 with a loaded chamber, and neither of those even has an external safety. They are intended to be carried with one in the chamber and no safety. So carrying my P64 with one in the chamber and safety off is the same thing.
There is no comparison. The two pistols you name both have recessed hammers. The P64 has a hammer which protrudes from the slide rear and no half cock notch. This means the hammer of an off safe P64 can be drawn partially back by hand or cloth then when released by accident it will drop and the gun will usually discharge. Further, just like a 1911 carried with a loaded chamber, if dropped onto the externally protruding hammer the P64 will usually fire, especially if the hammer is down.

Carrying a loaded P64 with the chamber loaded and the safety intentionally off is about the same as driving a car with the seatbelt off (but litigation wise potentially worse). If you don't have a bad day, you got away with it, but it only takes one accident to change everything. A big difference from the seatbelt analogy is by leaving the safety intentionally off, in the event of a UD/AD you intentionally placed bystanders at risk of a bullet strike. There may be legal consequences to the aftermath of that reckless behavior.

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Re: Don't change the springs.

Post by Foxtail » April 13th, 2017, 8:21 am

superc wrote:
Foxtail wrote:I carry my Taurus 738 with a loaded chamber, and I carried my SCCY cpx2 with a loaded chamber, and neither of those even has an external safety. They are intended to be carried with one in the chamber and no safety. So carrying my P64 with one in the chamber and safety off is the same thing.
There is no comparison. The two pistols you name both have recessed hammers. The P64 has a hammer which protrudes from the slide rear and no half cock notch. This means the hammer of an off safe P64 can be drawn partially back by hand or cloth then when released by accident it will drop and the gun will usually discharge. Further, just like a 1911 carried with a loaded chamber, if dropped onto the externally protruding hammer the P64 will usually fire, especially if the hammer is down.

Carrying a loaded P64 with the chamber loaded and the safety intentionally off is about the same as driving a car with the seatbelt off (but litigation wise potentially worse). If you don't have a bad day, you got away with it, but it only takes one accident to change everything. A big difference from the seatbelt analogy is by leaving the safety intentionally off, in the event of a UD/AD you intentionally placed bystanders at risk of a bullet strike. There may be legal consequences to the aftermath of that reckless behavior.
Well, I disagree with your analogy concerning seat belt use. However if you find the risks of carrying with the safety off excessive, then you clearly shouldn't do so.

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