Shot Shells

redfestiva · Post by **redfestiva** » May 6th, 2007, 9:20 pm

Is their any negative reasons not to use bird shot shells in a pistol? Will they hurt the inside of the barrel or anything?

saands · Post by **saands** » May 6th, 2007, 9:41 pm

Only reason is that most of the shot cups are wadcutter in shape, so they work fine in revolvers but not so well in autoloaders. They won't hurt the barrel, but they also don't do much of anything at ranges past 5 feet. In my book they are more of a curiosity, although they have probably dispatched a fair number of snakes in their day. I also don't know if you can get enough mass loaded into one to generate enough recoil to cycle the action of a P64 ...

Saands

barnett3006 · Post by **barnett3006** » May 7th, 2007, 12:03 am

shotshells wont hurt your pistol. but like saands said, they're not good for much past 5 feet. Making some shotshells for the p64 is a project that has a high potential for fun.

I found this article
http://www.castbullet.com/reload/44shot.htm

and I've seen these before
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=653594

I might be possible to take a 9mm Largo case, size and trim it to give it the profile of a 9x18mm cartridge, give it a light powder charge and top it off with #12 shot like in the above article.

carguy · Post by **carguy** » May 7th, 2007, 1:49 pm

Check out www.theboxoftruth.com and look up snake shot. He analyzes various loads and their effectiveness. End result is the same as everyone has said, unless shooting snakes up close they are useless.

I had some 22 LR shells a few years ago that made a really cool pattern of very little holes in the paper target that my son go a kick out of. Other than that little bit of fun...usless.

nicksterdemus · Post by **nicksterdemus** » May 8th, 2007, 5:31 pm

I use 22 magnum 2 keep stray dawgs moving @ a good clip. Even if ya don't penetrate hide the "shock" n rather loud report of 22 mag outa pistola seems 2 have the effect of them seeking greener pastures. There must be sumpthin 2 it coz they run like hell!

tmann11 · Post by **tmann11** » May 9th, 2007, 9:55 pm

OK, I've got to put in my .02 cents in on this one. My buddy bought a Taurus "Judge" Stainless Steel with 6.5" barrel which shoots the 45 LC and 410 SS loads. I've got to admit that I was very impressed with the accuracy and power, although it is a HUGE revolver. I'm actually thinking of getting one for the house, keeping it near my bed. I like the fact that the first shot can be a 410 shotgun shell, then following up with 5 shots of .45 Long Colt...OR you can alternate shots with 410, .45 LC, 410....and so on.

nicksterdemus · Post by **nicksterdemus** » May 11th, 2007, 7:12 am

That is 1 long cylinder but I kinda took a fancy 2 it as well. I'd like 2 pick up a used 1.

"...They are available in 2 1/2 inch length containing 1/2 ounce of shot, and 3 inch length with 11/16 ounce of shot. The high brass 3 inch shell used to contain 3/4 ounce of shot, but was reduced to 11/16 ounce a few years ago. I don't know the reason for this.

.410 bore guns are probably at their best with shot in sizes 7 1/2, 8, and 9. I used to like #7 1/2 for most hunting applications and #9 for shooting clay targets. #6 and larger shot makes for very skimpy patterns with a .410 bore gun because there simply are not enough of them in the maximum 11/16 ounce load. If you consider 225 pellets (the number of #6 shot in 1 ounce) necessary for adequate patterns, the limitations of the small charges of shot in .410 shells quickly becomes obvious.

The typical .410 bore 2 1/2 inch target shell, used primarily for small bore skeet shooting, contains 1/2 ounce of #9 shot. There are approximately 292 pellets in these loads. This is also a good load for informal shooting at clay targets thrown from a hand trap, and for teaching beginners the fundamentals of wing shooting.

The 2 1/2 inch game loads carry 1/2 ounce of shot in sizes 4, 6, and 7 1/2. With #7 1/2 shot this amounts to about 175 pellets per shell. This makes for pretty thin patterns, and I can see no point to the larger shot sizes in 2 1/2 inch shells.

The 3 inch "maximum" .410 load now carries 11/16 ounce of #4, 6, or 7 1/2 shot. With #7 1/2 shot this amounts to about 241 pellets, which is more like it. The same load contains only about 155 #6 pellets or 93 #4 pellets, which makes for patterns so thin that hitting anything at normal hunting ranges is mostly a matter of luck, at least at my skill level. The thin patterns resulting from the larger shot sizes in .410 shells are poor killers, but frequently wound game.

There is also a 1/5 ounce (around 86 grains) Foster type rifled slug load available for the .410 shotgun. The muzzle velocity is nominally 1830 fps. This rather anemic slug should be limited to game with a live body weight not exceeding about 25 pounds and ranges not exceeding 50 yards (at the outside).

.410 buckshot loads are usually not offered, as the case is too small to hold a reasonable number of such large pellets. However, in 2002 Winchester introduced a 2 1/2 inch shell loaded with 3 pellets of '000' buck (Q1483)..."
http://www.chuckhawks.com/410bore.htm

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » May 12th, 2007, 3:05 pm

I use 22 magnum 2 keep stray dawgs moving @ a good clip. Even if ya don't penetrate hide the "shock" n rather loud report of 22 mag outa pistola seems 2 have the effect of them seeking greener pastures. There must be sumpthin 2 it coz they run like hell!

The .22 Magnum is deadly even beyond 100 yards to small animals and large as well. If you shoot stray dogs regularly with a .22 magnum you undoubtedly have left many an animal wounded and suffering. That's a little too cruel to be good behavior in anybody's book.
If you shoot at an animal, you should have a good reason and shoot to kill. There's not a good hunter anywhere that wouldn't tell you it's wrong to pull the trigger on an "iffy" shot.

Now, being fairly old and having been around people all my life, I am aware there are lots of guys who love to kill and torture small animals for sport. There are whole cultures of people like that all around the U.S. So, it may not be considered out of the ordinary in your community. A person just needs to figure out whether torturing and killing small animals needlessly is a sign of good character and heart in truth or not, and modify behavior accordingly.

nbender · Post by **nbender** » May 12th, 2007, 3:43 pm

Since it was brought up, here's an experience of mine from last year.

I was working next to a landfill next to an airpdort. A USDA person was on site at the landfill to shoot coyotes and scavaging birds, partly because they wandered onto the adjacent airport as well as scrounged through the garbage.

He dispatched 2 coyotes one day with a Ruger 77/22 equipped with a 9X Simmons scope, using 40-grain Winchester Magnum JHPs. He shot within 25 yards. Hit both of them through the heart/lungs and they both fell dead on the spot. They didn't take another step.

Stray dogs can be a real big problem, but it would be hard for me to shoot one, and if I did, it would be with a bigger caliber, notwithstanding the evidence produced by the USDA marksman.

himmel · Post by **himmel** » May 14th, 2007, 12:02 pm

.410 buckshot loads are usually not offered, as the case is too small to hold a reasonable number of such large pellets. However, in 2002 Winchester introduced a 2 1/2 inch shell loaded with 3 pellets of '000' buck (Q1483)..."
http://www.chuckhawks.com/410bore.htm

Centerfire Systems had S&B .410 buckshot loads, 2 1/2 in w/ 3 pellets, and 3 in w/ 5 pellets

saands · Post by **saands** » May 14th, 2007, 5:02 pm

bzinggg:

I think that Nick was referring to the 22Mag SHOT shells ... not the 40grainers ... if so, then the nano-particles are probably not inflicting any damage whatsoever to the strays ...

At least that was how I chose to read the post ... if you were correct in your read, then I agree with you 100%.

Saands

bzinggg · Post by **bzinggg** » May 16th, 2007, 2:12 am

Saands,

I'm sure you're right. The topic was imperative even if he didn't specify in the particular statement. But, any youngsters reading will benefit by considering long and hard the effect their actions may have on others before pulling a trigger on a lost family pet with any ammo.

tmann11 · Post by **tmann11** » May 16th, 2007, 10:31 am

nicksterdemus,

Thanks for the information. I'm probably going to p/u a Taurus "Judge" at the next gun show.

Thomas

nicksterdemus · Post by **nicksterdemus** » May 19th, 2007, 8:10 am

Yes I was trying 2 stay in the same train of thought referring 2 the 22 mag w/shotshells.
I have no intention of wounding any animal 2 make it suffer.
I own goats and have no problem protecting them from predators.
The landscape has changed since the 50's & I have 2 place more concern on human lives that are close or could be out there in the thicket unseen than animal "rights".
I would be irresponsible if I used a 30-06 n the old 12 gauge full choke Ithaca ain't always handy though when it is it's real handy.
In a perfect world folks would keep their pets on their property. I like dawgs. I try 2 use my experience to deter them from coming around and bringing their 4 legged buds w/'em. If a dog ever takes a goat down it will come back until every goat has been killed. My property, my goats and I am well within my rights as I'm still in the county protecting my livestock. Dogs are not game animals so I'm not limited to specific calibers. Having used many differing weapons over many years I've come to the conclusion that @ this time 3 round bursts of .22 shp w/2.5x scope @ close range is most deadly as well as efficient offering 1 of the lowest chances of accidental human injury while allowing my passive, defensless herd 2 continue 2 graze in peace. My decision to use extreme prejudice is reserved only for the small portion of dawgs that I've determined through my years of experience to be an immediate threat. I don't wish to shoot Lassie, Rin Tin Tin or Sgt Prestons' lead sleddawg King. imho. ymmv...........

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