Is this normal?

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dfunk
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Is this normal?

Post by dfunk » November 11th, 2005, 10:39 pm

I got a P-64 from SOG today - 3 mags and instruction manual. It's a 1976 with the thumbrest (ugh!), otherwise as stated by everyone else - new (blue still on the feed ramp).
My question is:
When I hold the grip with one hand and pinch the slide with the other, I try to wiggle it a bit and it rocks maybe 1/32 of an inch back and forth (Very little, but still there). Does yours do this? Is this normal? ??? Thanks; I'm going shooting tomorrow morning and want to make sure this is normal before I fire it. ;D

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Post by abwehr » November 12th, 2005, 8:34 am

dickfunk,

Not at home to check mine, but some "wiggle" is normal. Even som ef my Walther PP & PPKs have some wiggle. The old Colt 1911 slide has a lot of wiggle and they shoot fine. I find this to be a bit of an advantage as I use a light grease on the slide and this allow the grease to stay and not get wiped off. I think you are fiine.

Edit - By the way, is your manual the same as the one posted on the Forum from "Firing Pin Enterprises"?
Last edited by abwehr on November 12th, 2005, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Is this normal?

Post by dfunk » November 12th, 2005, 9:05 am

Good to hear. My other guns have this slight wiggle, so I figured it was fine. My manual is the exact same one. Th epictures in mine a little more clear, however, they are still a dot-matrix type of print and don't scan very well. As far as I know, the manual posted on the forum is the only one around. Thanks!

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Post by b52stan » November 13th, 2005, 12:28 am

Mine is a 76 with flat grips, but I handled a p-64 with the thumbrest at a show today, and thought it felt better in the hand, and probably forces a proper grip.
About slide wiggle, mine really has only a hair of it.

Would really like to hear comments from those who have changed springs. I've seen reference to a 16#, 25#, spring too long, etc. Which one works without causing weak firing pin hits, thus a misfire, and are they PPK springs?

Any and all responses appreciated.

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Post by abwehr » November 13th, 2005, 5:23 am

b52stan,

Since you brought up the subject about Spring Weights and what is does for firing, I want to start a discussion on this point.

I am a collector and do shoot my weapons, but take very good care of them. Since I collect, I like to keep the weapon as original as possible, but I see nothing wrong with making changes that enhance firing. But I wonder why the original designers of weapons choose certain spring weights! The Polish designers had to know the HEAVY double action pull of the pistol was present; so why did they not go with a differnt weight Spring?

Did they WANT the heavy double action so the user could use it if needed, or to "encourage" them to shoot with the hammer cocked first? My opinion is they wanted the heavy double action and sort of force the user to shoot more accuratly with the hammer cocked, and have reliable ignition. As we know, a pistol is for defence, or as a last resort for protection in combat, so , what was their reason for this?????

How much use did these pistols see? Poland has not been involved in combat situations as far as I know, so were they actually used for anything except a little target practice and carrying?

Also, were these pistols issued to any Police units or just the military?

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Post by fjblackesq » November 13th, 2005, 6:30 am

I SUSPECT THAT THE HEAVY DA IS BUILT IN FOR A PURPOSE THAT WE HAVE NOT YET LEARN TO APPRECIATE! SUCH A FEATURE COULD NOT BE JUST A DESIGN FLAW. THINK FOR A MINUITE ABOUT THE MAGAZINE RELEASE IN THE THE BOTTOM OF THE GRIP. I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THAT WAS TO PREVENT THE ACCIDENTAL RELEASE THAT OCCURS WITH OTHER MAG RELEASES. ANYWAY, I LOVE MY TWO P64s!!!

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Post by abwehr » November 13th, 2005, 8:04 am

Yea, I agree there was a good reason to design a heavy pull, but maybe with this Forum we will know at some point. I was just on Gunboards and reading the Makarov Forum with more P-64 "bashing" as unreliable, bad grips that disentegrate in your hands, and FTF. This was from one guy and others came back in defense of the pistol. Hopefully anyone on the Makarov Forum that has this pistol will come here! I have read comments on the Makarov having the same problems.

No weapon is perfect; even the M-16 is still being developed, LOL

The P-64 is a very acceptable pistol for most requirements. Of course with any pistol; take it to the range before you count on it as a carry pistol and make sure it is reliable. We see NEW pistols from CZ, SIG, H&K, Walther, etc. that have problems out of the box; the P-64 is NO different. It is/can be very reliable as a carry piece and be depended upon to perform.

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Post by dfunk » November 13th, 2005, 10:09 am

Well, I went to the range yesterday and like I said in a different post, put 138 rounds of Silver Bear HP ammo through it without a hitch (except for the weird case bulge - I won't be using it again).

The DA pull was heavy- but, in a situation where I needed to call upon this little guy to save me or help me escape, the weight of the pull would have little to do with outcome. My very first shot (in DA) was right in the X-ring. The other 6 landed right next to it, producing a grouping of about 0.5" - 0.75". The SA pull is very sweet and I don't mind the over travel it has. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can really lay down some surgical fire with this gem.

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Post by b52stan » November 13th, 2005, 1:34 pm

abwehr,
Like your thought process on the DA pull. Read about several trigger changes in the early seventies, yet pull remained about the same. My impression is, since it was used by both military and police, that safety and reliability were the reason.

If springs are changed, I recommend some shooting time to assure weaker springs, don't facilitate weak strikes or misfires, since what most of us are here for is a CCW alternative, which demands reliability.

Here's a link with a more cautious and conservative solution: http://www.packing.org/community/firear ... hread=3412

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Post by b52stan » November 13th, 2005, 2:09 pm

I also like this post for the caution and care applied.

Now don't give up on the P64 yet. With very little time you can fix everything that people object to about them. Some friends and I bought four of them, and I went through them and did the following:
1 I cut a little over two and a half loops or coils off the hammer spring. That made the D.A. just fine. I cut a little too much off one and had to put a very thin washer back on to get it to strike hard enough.
2 I polished all the mating surfaces that I could on the trigger group. That made for a very smooth trigger.
3 I used very fine valve lapping compound on the mating surfaces of the slide and frame. By hand I cycled the action about fifty times. That really smoothed things up there also.
4 I polished the feed ramp.
The cutting and polishing I did with a Dremel tool. The first one took about fifteen minutes, and the rest took under ten minutes to do, and I am by no means a gunsmith. Accuracy is good on these little pistols. I like mine and my friends like theirs.

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Post by fjblackesq » November 13th, 2005, 2:28 pm

to b52STAN: i HEAR A LOT ABOUT "POLISHING", BUT BEING A NEWBEE, I DON'T QUITE UNDERWTAND THE PROCESS--- PLSE GIVE ME A "polishing for dummies" QUICK COURSE!!!! i HAVE A DREMEL, BUT HETISTATE TO PUT IT TO MY FAVORITE... thnx frankesq

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Post by amd6547 » November 13th, 2005, 7:51 pm

Altering spring weights should not be undertaken lightly. This is a blowback firearm firing perhaps the most powerful round intended to be blowback. The pressure is contained by the recoil mass designed into the firearm. This consists of the weight of the slide, the recoil spring, and the hammer spring.
In my P64's case, I noticed one thing right away. If you carefully pull the trigger without the slide on the pistol, you will see that the trigger bar flexes outward where it is retained by the inside of the slide. I gave that area of the slide a small amount of polishing using the dremel, a felt polish wheel, and some fine compound. Now, I always make sure that the trigger bar has a coat of teflon lube grease. The result is a much more usable double action trigger without the need for cutting or replacing springs.
I also saw (and responded to ) the latest pathetic attack on the P64 on gunboards. I always find it particularly humorous when they whine about recoil.
"I was so much older than, I'm younger then that now..."

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Post by cruiser » November 13th, 2005, 9:12 pm

to b52STAN: i HEAR A LOT ABOUT "POLISHING", BUT BEING A NEWBEE, I DON'T QUITE UNDERWTAND THE PROCESS--- PLSE GIVE ME A "polishing for dummies" QUICK COURSE!!!! i HAVE A DREMEL, BUT HETISTATE TO PUT IT TO MY FAVORITE... thnx frankesq
Not trying to be picky, and I know others are thinking but not saying. The ALL CAPS are the same as shouting and are hard to read.
Thanks

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Post by abwehr » November 14th, 2005, 6:58 am

fjblackesq,

"amd6547 pretty much summed up the easy way to polish mating surfaces. Use the Dremel as he stated "a small amount of polishing using the dremel, a felt polish wheel, and some fine compound". use the polishing wheel and dremel red polishing compound. This stuff is pretty light weight compound and will not "cut" metal like the valve grinding compound (any compound will eventually cut metal though). All you want to do is "shine up" the mating surfaces and use a good lube like teflon. Personally, I use high pressure Castrol wheel bearing grease, but after shooting, I clean the areas and re-apply. The new teflon stuf is super slick and stays put!

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Post by garry » March 15th, 2007, 12:05 pm

My previous occupation was as a metal finisher where i learned a lifetime of skills with using my hands on very small pieces of different types of metals and i find that the absolute best two finishing compounds for all metals i have worked (including Au=Gold) , are white first and as a second and more versatile choice , green. both are made by Motloid in Chicago, Ill. they are called Chrometal burnishing agent #1 and the green is #2. Both are able to go beyond a mirror finish and are exceptional on chromium alloys ! this stuff removes any scratches or imperfections you can throw at it ! Always use rubber points or wheels to remove any material (blue rubber points are my personal choice) red and green rubbers have more abrasives and will "cut" in too quickly for small detailed areas on firearms. I suggest that you NEVER used stone abrasives on feed ramps because by the time you get the stone scratches out and final polish you risk removing too much irreplaceable material. RUBBER wheel to REMOVE material and FELT wheel to FINISH ! Polishing with Chrometal and a stiff felt wheel that has soaked in water for a few days(keeps them from disintegrating AND burning up) is the BEST i know of for all metals. If you MUST use stone type points,barrels,or wheels, then , please only use the blue, white, or pink as they have the smallest size grit and leave smaller scratches that will need to be polished out. i have many years experience at metal finishing and polishing and these are my personal observations and i hope they can help! you guys roool !! thanks for the great site !! Garry

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