My friend's Kel-Tec .380 vs. my Polish...

islandson827 · Post by **islandson827** » April 25th, 2007, 3:20 am

So a friend of mine was boasting about how much better his Kel-Tec in .380 is, to my newly received Polish 9x18. After some research and joining this forum I feel he is mistaken - but then again I'm no expert. I just enjoy relieving stress at the range.

Are there any P-64 experts that could lend a little knowledge to shut him up?

nicksterdemus · Post by **nicksterdemus** » April 25th, 2007, 8:46 am

I'm by no stretch of the imagination an expert but the 9mm Makarov round has a tad more umph than the .380. I think it's 9.2 mm so it's a little bigger 'round. Being all steel it will absorb more recoil n would be much handier in whoppin' some1 upside da head if ya run outa ammo than the Kel-tec. 3.3" brl makes for a right nice sight plane n I dare say the Kel-tec will not out group the 64. For all practical means they are the same cartridge n same size built for the same purpose, small, light n easy to conceal if need be.

NEXT............................

carguy · Post by **carguy** » April 25th, 2007, 10:58 am

And the P-64 cost less.

devlinfaust · Post by **devlinfaust** » April 25th, 2007, 11:03 am

They are both fine weapons for what they are designed for. The Kel-Tec 3AT has the advantage of being smaller, lighter and thereby easier to conceal. In those areas, it excells. If concealment and ease of carry is the priority, it's hard to think of any pistol that beats the Kel-Tec's.

However, the .380 does not have the power of the 9x18, pure and simple. While the P-64 is heavier, this gives it a bit more control. It also has more of a 'presence', if you have to draw it--and that means maybe less of a chance that you'd have to actually fire it.

The biggest advantage for the P-64 over the Kel-Tec is accuracy. I've got two of the small Kel-Tecs and have no complaints, but they are truly 'point-blank' weapons. You'll shoot rings around your friend, when you start shooting his Kel-Tec and your P-64 at targets, and that goes for double-action as well. The Kel-Tech is DAO, but after the first double action shot, the P-64 is on a single action mode, and is very smooth and fast at that point.

I guess it depends on where and when you buy, but the price of two P-64's is probably pretty close to the price of one Kel-Tec .380.

This isn't meant to knock the Kel-Tec's. I have two of them and very happy with them. There are times that I can't CCW even a P-64, and at such times those tiny (and very reliable) Kel-Tecs are just the thing!

dolang1 · Post by **dolang1** » April 25th, 2007, 11:21 am

I agree with everything devlinfaust said. I have a Kel-tec 32 that I never take out of the safe. There is nothing wrong with it, it's just so light, it feels like a toy. On the other hand I fondle my P-64's all the time, because they feel like guns. Later Don

himmel · Post by **himmel** » April 25th, 2007, 11:42 am

And nobody would ever call a Kel-Tec a "mob gun"

... LOL!!!

islandson827 · Post by **islandson827** » April 25th, 2007, 11:06 pm

Wow... thanks Nickster and Devlin. I had a feeling my Polish was the better gun, atleast for my purposes. I haven't had a chance to hold the Kel-Tec but I can imagine the "toy" feeling it would have. So I'm happy with my $140 purchase. I promised my wife my gun collection would be limited to having a single gun for each niche of armory, and I didn't want to feel like I made a wrong choice with the P-64.

So far my personal armory consists of:
My P-64 - As my CC gun (I can ride my motorcycle and have it on my ankle comfortably).
My Taurus 24/7 .45 - As my beat-around, high-capacity, take-backpacking gun.
My Para 1911 SSP Stainless Nitetac - For my fancy, showpiece 1911 ... uh... niche.
And my Remi 870 Super Shotty - Ultimate home defense, skeet shooting, bird huntin' gun.

As for my buddy's Kel-Tec .380... I can't wait to take him out to the range. And even if he doesn't believe what you guys have mentioned, I'm sure his own quick comparison of the two will speak for itself.

steve98664 · Post by **steve98664** » April 26th, 2007, 1:07 am

I like my 380 acp Mak. It is the only 380 acp I have to compare with a 9x18 Mak caliber like my P64.

My P64 is all steel, exceptionally accurate at 15 yards ore even more. It has a good look to it. Its very, very reliable. Mak 9x18 rounds are generally more powerful than 380 acp rounds if you look at FMJ or standard HP ammo.

However, I can get many more defensive rounds for my 380 acp that are very powerful and with great projectiles that I feel equalize it with a Mak 9x18. That is the thing, it is a weaker round generally (380 acp). I can get Ranger Talons for my 380 Mak, Hydrashok and many, many more defensive rounds very easily. I know I can get powrball for my Maks and I believe silver bear HP is a reasonable defensive, but the options are easier and more plentiful for my 380 acp pistol.

If you want to brag to your friend, ask him how much his pistol cost. Ask him how much his practice ammo cost, compared to yours. Let him fire it and see how accurate it is.

A P64 is a great pistol! I wish there were more and better defensive rounds out there for it though. I do realize Hornady XTP and powrball are good.

Right now, I have the new Fiocchi HP rounds as defensive for my 380 Mak. In 9x18, my primary defensive round is silver bear. However, my pistol is loaded with S&B FMJ after seeing the recent gelatin ballistics for it posted on the forum. Penetration is sufficient with it and I'm confident I'll get more than one shot on the mark if needed.

anjdrifter · Post by **anjdrifter** » April 26th, 2007, 5:31 am

This thread came at a good time.. I was toying with the idea of getting the 380 from kel teck because again a friend has one, it does feel like a toy but a cute toy..liked the idea for summer carry and etc.. the difference in sp was really not a big consideration.after reading this thread it re affirmed why ilke the 64 so much... love the feel of a milsurp weapon it feels real to me . the rest as far as sight picture ,length all all the rest is true also.. then the part I liked the best was cost of firing and could get 2 more 64s for the same cost.. the other big real reason is I dont like the 380 round getting to close to the 9x18 they could be mixed up for us old guys too easily..

zbysiu23 · Post by **zbysiu23** » April 26th, 2007, 8:50 am

Personally I do believe that niether the .380 nor 9mm mak can trully benefit from good defensive load..they are not quite strong enough to penetrate and expand the same time..
so I am sticking with 9x18 ..has more juice ..FMJ kills just fine in the war scenario think will have same killing power on the street and in the forest ...I am mixing mine half HP half FMJ

gunneyrabbit · Post by **gunneyrabbit** » April 26th, 2007, 11:48 pm

Go to "KTOG.org", Kel-Tec Owners Group web page and take the time to read the entry's about the P3AT. Then invite your friend to the range for a shoot off out to fifty-five feet. After you kicked his @ss at the range, stand back and watch the P3AT chink it's self to death. When the Recoil Spring Shoots Out the Front End of His P3AT, ask him how it feels to have bought a P.O.S.. He obviously has not done his home work! Last week I asked the "KTOG" members if they had the option to buy the gun again, would they? One telling reply was, "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR F___ING MIND, HAVE YOU BEEN READING THE POSTINGS!"
I believe that says it all. I own several Kel-Tec products and believe that they have wonderful close up hand guns. (1. A Kel-Tec P11. (2. A Kel-Tec P32 and (3. A Kel-Tec P40 conversion), which I love to death and I Can't wait to find the SIG 357 conversion. But the vote is in for the current P3AT iteration. Wait to invest your hard earned cash!
G.R.
P.S.
You can verify my statement by going to the "KTOG.org" then click on reviews, then P3-AT and fallow the thread, all 184 pages, I think both you and your friend will get the idea, then have pity on him, he's only human............ G.R.

islandson827 · Post by **islandson827** » April 27th, 2007, 2:53 am

Woah Gunney... I guess I just didn't know the Kel-Tec was that poor of a handgun. But for actual owners to openly express their disappointment like that, kinda puts a grin on your face.
Given that, that of buddy of mine has an abundance of pride and loves to rub it in how he knows so much more about guns than I do (I did just started shooting a year ago), maybe I should let him read both this thread and that thread on KTOG.org. You know, let him squirm. Then invite him out to the range to do our own testing... In the end, its all in good fun. I'm just glad I made a good decision at an awesome price.

space · Post by **space** » April 27th, 2007, 6:31 am

I was looking at the Kel-Tec's before I got my P64. The dealer said they were nice carry guns but there was no way you could put 3000 rounds through one.

They do look like a very good carry gun though.

gunneyrabbit · Post by **gunneyrabbit** » April 27th, 2007, 12:45 pm

I'm very disappointed in Kel-Tec.
Every one who bought this product bought it for self defense, no one thinks the item is a tack driving target pistol. Kel-Tec new there was a problem with the slide and still offered the gun for sale. My take is that Kel-Tec was more concerned with immediate profits than they were with your and my life. I still appreciate Kel-Tec for my P11, P40 and P32, some day I hope to find a K.T. 357SIG barrel or conversion. When Kel-Tec works the bugs out of the P3AT I will also buy one , but until that day I will be wary of the hype and promises they make. Sorry if my previous reply sounds like a rant but consider the comments made buy the loyal followers of Kel-Tec products at the KTOG web site.
G.R.

devlinfaust · Post by **devlinfaust** » April 27th, 2007, 1:18 pm

The two Kel-Tecs I have are the .32 acps. I didn't go for the 3AT. To me, the 'balance' was just about right with the .32acp. I would agree that the .32acp is not really strong enough to assure that you could defend yourself in all situations. That said, the first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun, and I'd sure rather kick in with a .32acp than a .25acp or nothing at all.

I hadn't heard those things about the 3AT, and have had no functioning problems with either of my .32's. However, virtually ever time I meet with friends for some shooting, I fire one or the other of my P-64's (everyone wants to shoot it, despite the recoil) and other than the first six to nine months I had the Kel-Tec .32's, I doubt that I put in more than 100 rounds a year in those guns. While the Kel-Tecs are probably not a 'disposable' pistol, but one with a much more limited life-span (at least in terms of actually shooting life) than the P-64. I will say that I have found both of my Kel-Tec .32's reliable and accurate "enough" within very close range, which is what they were designed for.

When I go on a range session with friends, the P-64 never, ever fails to wow them. It doesn't matter who we are out with, the person who uses this "little gun", is at first surprised that it is a true double action. Then, they are surprised by the recoil and the power (probably expecting it to be a .32 or somethign). And then they are surprised by the accuracy. And finally, they are surprised by the reliability, becasue shot after shot (other than with Hornady's, which neither of my P-64's likes), they fire each and every time!

I'd like to see someone make fun of a track record like that! I know owners of 1911 clones that have guns that cost 12 times what you would pay for a P-64's that don't fire all the time, aren't consistently as accurate, etc., etc. etc.

Hold your Polish treasure proudly, Islandson! You have come to the promised land!

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