P-64 Misconceptions

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b52stan
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by b52stan »

I think we're at the stage where we can discuss and clear up some things that we assumed or speculated on, so I'll throw out a few.
1. " Thumbrest grips were put on later year guns". Do we agree that they were just put on the left grip of all years, after some time, for import reasons?
2. Disintegrating grips. My take is that it's becoming more common, and is only the make-shift thumbrest grip. Is this true?
3. "Trigger improvements occured around 1972 or later, which improved the DA pull". From what I've read, some of the earlier years are really better, and my two 76's were terrible. If there were improvements, it wasn't to improve the DA pull. Am I wrong?
Well, you get the idea. These are just examples, but I do think we can now offer the REAL DEAL to new members on most issues, so let's start clearing the smoke.
Last edited by b52stan on December 17th, 2005, 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dfunk
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by dfunk »

I don't deny hearing about 'disintegrating' grips occasionally. I think if anything, it's due to the grips becomming brittle by neglect (I could be wrong). I'd still love to see a photo of one. I do think that the thumbshelf on the newer pistols was put on for import reasons - possibly a request from the Poles that were issued the gun. Trigger improvements - well, this is touchy. There was a post on here about a user trying to switch parts between years and the parts not fitting properly, but nothing has really been confirmed about the "improvements." It would be nice to have a Polish military weapons expert to chime in and enlighten all of us. But for now, most things are still open for speculation.
mikethewreck
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by mikethewreck »

I can ditto that my 1967 P-64 trigger is far better than my 1976. Other than the different hammer design, I know not what changed.

My two girls came with flat grips so no disintegration. Both girls' grips in good shape.
xelloss
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by xelloss »

Both of mine have flat grips, and both are in fine shape...

On another note, a diagram of the trigger/hammer/sear mechanism of the P-64 can be found in E. Ezell's Small Arms of the World...

-Mark
mikethewreck
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by mikethewreck »

Can you scan it and upload it?
mongo
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by mongo »

I don't deny hearing about 'disintegrating' grips occasionally. I think if anything, it's due to the grips becomming brittle by neglect (I could be wrong).
watch how you tighten the grips my left grip has a half inch long crack from the screw hole toward the front and another toward the bottom of the grip. I think people crank on the screw and that is what destroys the grip. Walther plastics have similar problems.

I used super glue heated into the crack and it seems to be okay for now...

I guess now I am gonna get a butler creek slip on after all and leave the grip screw a little loose.
preacher
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by preacher »

Mine is a 1970 with flat grips. Which I'm glad because I have never been a fan of the thumbrest. My plastic was flawless. I am pretty sure mine was unfired. There was no wear marks anywhere. My FFL is a gunsmith and he thought the same thing also.
abwehr
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Post by abwehr »

I am going to throw this out about the disentigrating grips discussion. I don't have the thumbrest grip, so I can't make any firsthand comments, but from collecting German pistols, I do have som experience. The one that comes to mind is the German Sauer .32 auto pistol that was made during the war. This pisto was EXCELLENT quality, but the grips were manufactured without a "filler" material in the resin to save raw material. What happened is that the grips were fine for many years, but now, the plastic has become VERY brittle. If you bump the very hard or overtighten a screw they will break! As we all know, plastic does deteriorate over time, but usually after several lifetimes. The P-64 grips may not have any "fillers" which will make them brittle. When the gripsare made, I am sure they probably had spares made, but unfortunantly, we don't have them, YET! maybe all the spare parts will be coming one of these days!!
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dfunk
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by dfunk »

On another note, a diagram of the trigger/hammer/sear mechanism of the P-64 can be found in E. Ezell's Small Arms of the World...

-Mark
Mark, as previously asked, I'd love a scanned document of this! It would be a great addition to the web site and would really compliment the official manual here on our forum. Let me know what you can do. Thanks!
xelloss
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Post by xelloss »

I'll see what I can do, but I can't make any promises... I (unfortunately) don't have a scanner... :( :( :( If nothing else, I'll try and get a photocopy of it and mail it to one of you guys to post...

-Mark
Last edited by xelloss on December 18th, 2005, 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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P-64 Misconceptions

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fjblackesq
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Post by fjblackesq »

HERMANNEK: dzien kuje za photo!!! (thank you for photo) pravdwzie imniene yest CZERNIKOWSKI z Sandomierz: email: <<<franklin_j_black@hotmail.com>>>
xelloss
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P-64 Misconceptions

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saands
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by saands »

One of my thumbrest grips fell apart in my hand when I was cleaning it (almost NO force applied at the time). I DID just clean it off with brake cleaner, and I was concerned that the chemicals may have gotten into a hairline crack and caused the failure. Mine failed just below the thumbrest on the left grip and the newly exposed surface looks to be devoid of any filler material. The surface appears to be that of a bright and shiny resin ... almost as though these grips were made of unfilled epoxy. Numrich had some spare grips at one time, but when I finally got around to ordering some, they had none in inventory (this would substantiate the disintegrating grip hypothesis).

I think that I am going to try to make some out of wood and aluminum (I'm thinking Al for the backstrap so that I can sink some small screws into it to hold the whole thing together better), but that will be in a few weeks when I have a little more spare time.

Saands
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P-64 Misconceptions

Post by pezzonovante »


1. " Thumbrest grips were put on later year guns". Do we agree that they were just put on the left grip of all years, after some time, for import reasons?

NO POLISH P-64 EVER HAD A THUMBREST GRIP - PERIOD. I've researched ca. 120 P-64s in Poland, police, military, railway police, private, museum pieces etc. Not single one of these had thumbrest grips. There's not a single photo or drawing of the thumbrest grip in any of the Polish manuals I have (1965 is the earliest, then I got all three editions of the 1968 one, dated 1969, 1974 and 1985, a repair manual, a spare parts catalog) - no remark there, too.

2. Disintegrating grips. My take is that it's becoming more common, and is only the make-shift thumbrest grip. Is this true?

If you tighten the grip plate so much that ALL of the threaded part of the grip screw becomes visible, the grips would crack. Other than that - only if you use the hammer. No experience with thumbrest grips - there's no any of these here in Poland.

3. "Trigger improvements occured around 1972 or later, which improved the DA pull". From what I've read, some of the earlier years are really better, and my two 76's were terrible. If there were improvements, it wasn't to improve the DA pull.
The improvement (or rather just change) was made to the hammer and trigger bar, and had nothing to do with the DA pull.
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