No Loaded Chamber Indicator - Thoughts?

[robhic]

Yes, this is the result of a disasterous day yesterday! I wanted to lighten the sticky safety/de-cocker on one of my P-64s and intended to do a little sanding, a little filing and some lube. I've taken this assembly apart before because I'd replaced the firing pin spring, so offer no excuses for this. I got it out. Good, so far.

This time I intended to crimp the detent spring to the detent piece to make it easier to re-install. (It liked to made me suicidal the last time! ) Launched that baby! But I had a spare for a Walther PPK someone wrote would work so I used that (I actually like it better, anyway) with the P-64 spring. They snapped together perfectly. But I never dreamed I could and WOULD have so much trouble with getting the firing pin back in!

I had hemostats this time which I figured would help. I did it last time without, so this has gotta be better, right? Nope! All-in-all I struggled 4 hours ( ) getting that sucker all back together. I could not believe how much trouble I had. Even with the detent and spring stuck together I had a horrid time getting it all lined up and fit. Of course, the safety itself almost NEVER lined up and kept wedging and not co-operating!

Finally (FINALLY!!!!) I got it all back together and then, I have NO IDEA how this happened - the little retainer popped out and the loaded-chamber indicator slid out. You can NOT re-install it without getting the safety out. After 4 hours? NO WAY!!!

So all this is leading up to my question: I don't think (besides the lack of an indicator and safety issue) leaving it out will cause problems. I don't rely on the indicator for 100% information, anyway. But I'm thinking if lack of that angled part above the firing pin will have any bearing? I'm thinking it shouldn't affect anything as the extractor and bolt-face still hold the bullet case. That thing just rubbed the case and didn't hold it. (I also found the 'launched' P-64 detent piece under a chair this morning so I'm only obsessing about the chamber indicator at this time! )

So - thoughts?

[spareparts]

Messing with the internals on the P64 is kinda like doing open heart surgery on a live unanethesized octopus. I'f you're anything like me tho, I'm a perfectionist and would not be happy til I got it back together right.

FYI, I used needle nose pliers to hold the firing pin, and a thin punch to push the safety detent down, while sliding in the safety. I know that makes it sound easy, just haven't had that much trouble.

[Ketchman]

I don't think it would cause any function problems but is the hole for the loaded chamber indicator open to the inside of the slide? might that be an avenue for crud to get into and cause problems?

[robhic]

FYI, I used needle nose pliers to hold the firing pin, and a thin punch to push the safety detent down, while sliding in the safety. I know that makes it sound easy, just haven't had that much trouble.

It bothers me in principle but after 4 hours of fighting that thing, I couldn't bring myself to take it apart again to try (I HAD tried and failed a couple times) to put the indicator back. Since I don't think it'll be problematic (only psychologically ) I decided to not subject myself to the hassle. Down the line I'll probably get the urge to take it down and put the indicator back. Just 'cause ....

I used needlenose pliers the first time, that's why I figured using the hemostats (like Junius Taylor uses in his videos) could only make it easier. Wrong-o! Don't know why but it didn't. The video takes Junius about 10 minutes. It took me 4 hours. Junius, great video but I HATE YOU!!!! (just kidding)

[robhic]

I don't think it would cause any function problems but is the hole for the loaded chamber indicator open to the inside of the slide? might that be an avenue for crud to get into and cause problems?

My thought is NO, no problems. But YES it does open into the chamber - right above the firing pin. Ruger MkIII .22 pistols have the LCI in the side of the chamber. I have them removed with a matching steel filler installed. No issues. It is cosmetic only but some people have said they just remove the LCI and leave the slot open. No problems reported and you just have to live with, IMO, an ugly scar of a slot in the side of your pistol. I will probably take it down sometime in the future and put the LCI back in my P-64 because I am obsessive like that. If it gives problems then I guess I'll move the date of re-installation up a bit.

[zardoz]

You may not need the LCI but you will always know it is missing.

Jim

[robhic]

You may not need the LCI but you will always know it is missing.

Jim

Yeah, thanks a lot! That's the obsessive part. Just knowing that I didn't/couldn't get it back in is still bothering me. I did put it back last time so know it can be done. Why I failed this time? Who knows. But it's that thought bothering me that is driving me to eventually take it apart again and put the LCI in, then take on fighting that safety!!! Hopefully it won't take me 4 hours this time ....

[robhic]

OK, I couldn't stand it anymore! I took my pistol apart again today (I was feeling lucky ) and put the loaded chamber indicator back in. My compulsiveness wouldn't let me allow that gun to beat me and the LCI was taunting me! So I took it down and here's a few things I did differently which might help others:

I cleaned the assembly and dressed the flat sides (there are 2 flat sides up by the silver knob - have you noticed?) with a small file. I did the same to the 'U' in the keeper portion. Then I cleaned out the well where it all goes together under the safety. Since there is nothing keeping the assy. in when you have to push back on the spring in its notch (watch Junius' video) I pushed a wooden toothpick in to hold it so it wouldn't back out. Then I positioned the keeper above the rod with needlenose pliers and pushed the spring back. Since nothing moved, the keeper FINALLY fell in place. I pushed it snugly down to seat it and applied just a bit of blue LocTite to keep it all together so it doesn't just drop out like it did the other day which caused all of this mess! Now putting the safety back in....

Here, again, I realized a problem. Pushing the firing pin down was problematic because the end of the FP is a bit angled from being hit by the hammer. It's worn and slanted so pushing against it with a pin punch is tough 'cause it slips! (Like it did to me about 30 times!!! ) A slightly cupped rod or dowel to fit the end of the FP would be ideal here. I got it between the needlenose and then the hemostats (and a bunch of luck) so I could insert the safety body.

Got it close, pushed the detent in with a pin-punch, a small screwdriver and again, some luck, it popped in! Four hours Saturday (!!!!!) turned into around 45 minutes this time AND I also got the LCI put back in at the same time. This gun is finished. I am happy and my neurosis about leaving the job unfinished (LCI out) has settled down!

[Curly1]

Third time's the charm

[zardoz]

Happy to hear it's all together robhic!

Jim

[robhic]

Happy to hear it's all together robhic!

Jim

I just couldn't bear to leave it "unfinished"! It was bothering me and, I swear, that LCI was taunting me!!! So I had good daylight yesterday morning, a good attitude, cleaned everything up (as described above) and felt lucky. So I went for it!!! After my 4 hour disaster-thon Saturday I was still a bit shell-shocked. But this time it just went better. A couple of changes and 4 hours turned into 45 minutes PLUS I got the LCI in, too, so this was a major triumph (for me). Nowhere NEAR Junius Taylor's 9-10 minutes in his video but, for me, a good run, nonetheless.

[juniustaylor]

Glad you got that sucker back in there!!

[robhic]

Glad you got that sucker back in there!!

Thanks! You and me BOTH! And thanks for the video which helped tremendously. I just couldn't leave the gun "unfinished" - it was mentally killing me! And I wanted the LCI in place anyway - just because. Got a better idea of doing it with so much practice so next time (if ever!!!) should be even better.