Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

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MartyW
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Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by MartyW » February 24th, 2015, 10:34 pm

Hi to all,

This topic was touched in the thread on Underwood ammo, and this report was requested in that thread. This subject came up for me when I ran across an article from the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network that discusses gun modifications (and specifically trigger pull spring weight modifications) and how these modifications can be attacked in a courtroom. I was really glad I found this article since I plan to use the P64 as a ccw. Here is a link to that article:

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

Edit: They changed the location of the article to:
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/44- ... F0aW9ucyJd

I had my P64 running super smooth at the range with a Wolff 18 lb replacement hammer spring that made the DA pull a lot better than the stock spring. But after reading that article I was concerned at the lightness of the SA pull. So I ordered a trigger pull weight gauge to see where the SA pull was on my P64 with the 18# DA spring. The gauge I ordered is a mechanical gauge by Wheeler and is about a $40 item, so maybe not as accurate as a more expensive digital gauge.

I have only measured the 18 lb spring vs the stock spring that I put back into my P64 this evening. My apologies if this has already been covered in depth, but I haven't seen it and I wanted to share it.

SA pull on my P64 with Wolff 18 lb hammer spring: 3.3 - 3.6 lbs, average pull: 3.4 - 3.5 lbs
SA pull on my P64 with stock hammer spring: 3.8 - 4.2 lbs, average pull: 4.0 lbs

I have some other hammer springs (19 & 20) that I may try, but I want to use the P64 at the range with the stock 4 lb SA spring for a while.

All the best,
Last edited by MartyW on February 27th, 2015, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gemini1
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by gemini1 » February 25th, 2015, 12:38 am

Hey Marty, thanks for the info on the SA pull weight. While the stock spring has maybe over 20# weight, so no need to know that one. But I wonder what the 18# would be? Did you not try to measure that?

edit. I just saw a you tube vid of a guy using a digi scale on his 18 lbs spring, it didn't give him a DA reading, the scale has max of 12 and he's getting an over reading. Does your manual scale has a max pull weight?

MartyW
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by MartyW » February 25th, 2015, 9:58 am

Hi gemini1, yes I meant to put on the op that the max pull weight measured on my Wheeler gauge is 8 lbs. Even the expensive gauges that I found would measure only up to 14-15 lbs, so not enough for our P-64 DA pulls.

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craig
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by craig » February 25th, 2015, 11:54 am

Thank you for the report and link to the article. I bought my P64 several months ago with the idea of using it as my edc because of it's size and reliability reputation. However after 4 trips to the range, I find I'm just too heavy handed for the light SA trigger of the firearm - especially as a follow-up shot to a DA shot. The follow-up shot peels off so easy as to be border line unintended. Sigh.
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Ketchman
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by Ketchman » February 26th, 2015, 2:05 am

Marty thanks for the follow up man. I may have to rethink the 17# hammer spring I currently have. But I will wait until you test the 19# & 20# springs you have. Look forward to thaf information.
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by gemini1 » February 26th, 2015, 3:25 pm

I just modded my stock spring. Grinded/reduced it by a coil and a half. Re-installed it back and I can now pull it on DA, one handed. Its still stiffer compared to the 18 lbs Wolff, but it also added some weight on SA pull. I'm gonna try and see how far if I can last 100 rounds doing the DA/SA pull per mag.

MartyW
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by MartyW » February 26th, 2015, 7:59 pm

Interesting mod gemini1. Good luck and I look forward to hearing your range report.

I'm planning to take my now-stock P64 to the range tomorrow to see what I can do with it.

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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by Ketchman » March 7th, 2015, 3:42 pm

Marty, did you ever test the SA pull with the #18 and #19 springs in it? Inquiring minds want to know. :D
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by gemini1 » March 7th, 2015, 5:25 pm

I think you meant 19# & 20# Ketchman, his OP mentioned the 18# SA pull at 3.4/5 average. I'm also waiting for him to get a reading on those springs.
Incidentally, I went back and reinstall the 18# spring. Though I can pull the stock spring on DA after I cut/grinded off a coil & half, I find doing it tiring on my trigger finger, when I did the DA/SA alternately while dry firing it. I have a feeling the 20# spring might be the right one to have the closest to a 4# pull, but makes me wonder what it would be for DA?

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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by Ketchman » March 7th, 2015, 7:40 pm

Your right I miss spoke, again, sigh....... :roll: . Yes I am eagerly awaiting his findings because for some strange reason I don't have access to a trigger pounds scale device. And I carry mine quute a bit and do not want to get nailed on that kind of technicality should I have a serious social encounter.
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MartyW
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by MartyW » March 8th, 2015, 1:07 am

I still have the stock hammer spring installed and it is workable so I've been pondering whether or not to try the 19 & 20. With the stock hammer spring the main annoyance to me is the difficulty of the mag release.

I'll try to get the 19 lb spring installed within the next few days to see what that does to the SA pull and I'll report back.

Have a great weekend!

Ketchman
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by Ketchman » March 8th, 2015, 11:45 am

Thanking you sir in advance for your efforts. Looking forward to them.
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MartyW
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by MartyW » March 8th, 2015, 2:55 pm

Thanks Ketchman, and after thinking about this a bit more, I think I'll go ahead and install the 20 lb hammer spring instead of the 19.

By knowing the SA pull of the 20 and already knowing the SA pull of the 18, then we will know that the 19 would be (somewhere) in the middle of those two.

MartyW
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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by MartyW » March 13th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Hi to all,

I finally got around this evening to install the Wolff 20 lb hammer spring in my P-64. So here are the SA pulls I've found so far with the 18 lb, 20 lb and stock (?? lb) spring in my particular P-64 using my manual Wheeler trigger pull gauge:

SA pull on my P-64 with Wolff 18 lb hammer spring: 3.3 - 3.6 lbs, average pull: 3.4 - 3.5 lbs
SA pull on my P-64 with Wolff 20 lb hammer spring: 3.6 - 3.9 lbs, average pull: 3.7 - 3.8 lbs
SA pull on my P-64 with stock hammer spring: 3.8 - 4.2 lbs, average pull: 4.0 lbs

So from this data I believe that the 19 lb hammer spring would have a SA pull in the middle of the 18 & 20 lb springs, and it appears that we're dealing with only a couple of tenths of a lb in pull.

And again, these measurements have been done with a Wheeler mechanical (spring) trigger pull gauge, so anyone that has a more expensive digital gauge would probably come up with different numbers.

In my particular P-64 I loved the 18 lb spring DA but the SA was a bit light, but it was wonderful at the range. With the stock spring the DA was tough but sorta managable with practice and the SA was solid at around 4 lbs, but the main problem I personally had with the stock spring was the mag release was too stiff for me to make quick changes. The 20 lb spring seems to be a decent compromise, and I'll try it for a while and report back.

Best of luck to all,
Marty

Edit: Also, with the 20 lb hammer spring the DA is noticibly better than the stock spring was.

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Re: Replacement Wolff 18 lb hammer spring - SA pull

Post by Ketchman » March 14th, 2015, 1:28 am

Marty thank you very much for the info and the hard work. I believe I will have to go with the 20lb now for SA reasons. If anyone reading this has the springs used here and a digital scale and the time to reproduce this test I for one would be interested in knowing how different the numbers might be. Hmmmmmm.......
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