Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety or?

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jabski
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Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety or?

Post by jabski »

As the title says...
I'm a bit mechanically inclined, and like to look at things and understand how parts work with each other, but in no way am I an expert.
The hammer hits the firing pin and the safety, whether there is a round(or snap cap) in the chamber or not, right? So what makes it detrimental to dry fire it?
Like I said, I like to understand things. Help me out. :?:
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Curly1
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by Curly1 »

Some handguns, depending on the FP design, can have the FP break or damaged if they travel the entire length of the FP channel and do not have something in the chamber with repeated dry firings.

I use snap caps in all my weapons as cheap insurance, just saying.
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papabear
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by papabear »

+1 with Curly1, I have had 5 P-64's and still have one ['69], all of mine were bought back in '06 & '07. I dry fried it and a couple others many times to loosen the trigger pull plus firing them several hundred times and never had a problem but then a lot of the P-64's back then were not composite guns as some are today and a few years back when the supply ran low. I have tried the snap caps and for today's guns I'd recommend the snap caps.
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dfunk
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by dfunk »

Like the other guys said, the firing pin wasn't intended to travel the full length of its channel. Combine that with a thin piece of old, possible brittle steel, and you could experience a break.

I'm not an expert either, but I believe the safety breaks under dry firing because the hammer isn't slowed down by the firing pin without a round chambered. The firing pin needs some type of stop (which is a primer in a case) to prevent the hammer from putting full force on the barrel of the safety.
wlockridge
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by wlockridge »

I have to agree in principle with the guys above. At the police department we had some dry fire exercises with a mix of wheel guns and semi-autos and I don't remember anyone ever having a problem however, that being said, had there been a breakage, we could still get parts for those guns. With the P 64 I would imagine that you're not going to walk into the nearest gun shop and buy a firing pin for a P 64. It's doubtful that you're going to find a firing pin for your P 64, should it become damaged from dry firing, at least not in the states so that leaves the very expensive proposition of taking it to a gunsmith that could possibly make a new one. I would not want to pay that bill. As far as " loosening up the trigger pull, you're only really good options are to change the trigger mainspring to the 18 lb. Wolf spring and then just live with it. It's never going to be the 4 to 7 lbs. that we Americans are used to. When I bought mine it was unfired and you couldn't pull the trigger with both hands. I took the advise of the more knowledgeable members of this fine community and soaked mine in kerosene and carefully cleaned all of the protective Cosmoline out of it. Then I judiciously coated the rails, the feed ramp, and the safety and trigger parts with Lucas assembly lube. It contains, among other things, Moly and Zink which made the slid action smoother as well as the safety and the trigger pull. I still use a drop on the safety cam and slid rails whenever I clean it. It works wonders. As an aside, when I feel the need to dry fire it I simply put an expended casing in the chamber for the firing pin to hit but I don't recommend doing that too often either. After firing 7 to 8 hundred rounds through mine the DA trigger pull is perfectly acceptable partly because it's broken in and partly because I've grown used to it. I practice quite often cocking my weapon as I draw it from the holster as well (unloaded of course) then the stiff da trigger pull becomes a moot point. Didn't mean to write a book hope some of that helped.
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jabski
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by jabski »

Okay, what makes the lighter spring weight drop the magazine?
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dfunk
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by dfunk »

The mainspring is responsible for tensioning the magazine catch.
See the exploded views for the relationship that this spring plays.

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jabski
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by jabski »

I should have asked, what makes the lighter hammer spring weight drop the magazine prematurely?
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by jabski »

Why wouldn't a lighter hammer spring,combined with some type of extended tab, or a Variable length tab on the magazine catch, make everything work?
I mean, the light weight spring causes the magazine catch to rock back prematurely, right? Dropping the mag when the hammer moves. Why not design some type of sliding, variable length tab for the magazine catch ? That way you have a light hammer spring for a decent DA trigger pull, and a way to keep the mag from dropping until needed.
Just a crazy thought... that might work.
:evilgrin:
jabski
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by jabski »

Yeah, uh, I was at work and crazy from the heat when I had my little epiphany about the "sliding tab" thing . :oops: :evilgrin:
Being home now and seeing the mag, and mag release, I see how my "idea" was not going to fly.
To bad there's no way to put tension on that mag release independent from the hammer spring.
This pistol would be wonderful with a mild DA pull!
snailman153624
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by snailman153624 »

You could drill a small hole through the strut near the bottom, and put a pin in to keep the magazine portion of the spring from decompressing.
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Re: Why would dry firing with no snap caps damage the safety

Post by dfunk »

People regularly use a 17# spring with no unintentional mag drops. Any lighter than that and your single action would be too light, I think.

Best thing to do is try a few different weights in your specific gun.
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