Wolff Springs

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steve98664
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Post by steve98664 » March 25th, 2007, 9:39 pm

Hey all,

I wanted to try out my new springs today. However, I could not get the 22# spring installed. I have always had to work at getting the standard spring in, but the 22 just wouldn't go. Has anyone had this experience?

I decided to put my P64 in a homemade softjaw rig to get the spring in. I had the pistol slide clamped in, slightly at an angle, upside down so I could push forward and downward on the frame to compress the slide spring fully. Anyhow, no matter what I did, I could not get the rails to pop into place and engage the slide with the frame.

I marked the slide on the serrations so I could tell where the standard spring is forward enough and compressed to allow the slide to slip into the rails on the frame. I looked at the frame position compared to the mark on the slide. Once I marked it, I tried to put the 22 in again. I could see that I was at the same spot for the frame as compared to the slide serrations, but the frame would just not pop onto the slide (or slide on the frame if you like that better). It was like the slide would not pop down vertically into place, although the slide position compared to the frame position, was correct horizontally.

I think I had the 22 spring fully compressed since I was pushing forward and down on the frame with my full force. Remember, I had the slide in the softjaw vice upside down, pushing forward and downward on the spring by pushing on the frame/grip.

The 22# spring wire diameter is larger and it may be that I simply can' t compress the spring as small as the old spring assuming I compress the coils to where they are all touching.

Anyhow, I backed out of all this and put the 20# spring in with the matching firing pin spring. It fit, just barely, like the original spring. I have to have the recoil spring compressed all of the way, feels like.

Anyone have this problem? Should I grind away a bit where te slide rail engages the frame rail to make it work? I don't like the idea of it..... I will wait for advice here before I try something else.

Incidentally, I put the 18# Wolff hammer spring in also. I don't have a pull gauge, but it feels like the pull is stiffer than the Walter 16# I had in there. The trigger pull is more consistent all the way through the trigger pull now in my opinion. With the Walther 16#, I like the light trigger, but it was looser at first, then as I pulled the trigger it would stiffen very slightly right before tripping. I would say the 18# Wolff hammer spring is overall a better, more consistent hammer spring as far as trigger pull.

My advice on the new recoil springs is to install the recoil spring 1st before doing the firing pin spring! If the recoil spring won't fit, then you don't have to go back and pull the modified firing pin spring. The recoil goes in and out easy if it will work, but the firing pin spring is a bit harder, though I can always get it.

I went to my range and the 20# recoil works fine. I can't tell a significant felt decrease in recoil. Maybe just a bit of an improvement. I was shooting silver bear 94g HP's and Mesko FMJ. Also, casings were still flying at least 15 ft away.
Last edited by steve98664 on March 25th, 2007, 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

b52stan
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Post by b52stan » March 25th, 2007, 10:34 pm

I,m not a rocket scientist, but I warned that the 22#recoil spring was too much for most of us, and the only reason to have one, is to shoot ammo not appropriate for this pistol(115-120 gr).

Furtermore, when ordering my 3 pk of P-64 17# trigger springs from Wolff, the gal advised me that this 17# spring is about 1# heavier than the PPK 17#.

Thus, in conclusion, this frustrated B-52 jock advises that the best combo is the 20/17, AGAIN!!!

Stan

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Post by zbysiu23 » March 25th, 2007, 10:40 pm

Off course you know that ..but I have known somebody that didn't so I just mention..
try to flip the spring around..

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Post by steve98664 » March 25th, 2007, 10:49 pm

Thanks for the input on this!

Is the P64 recoil spring ok to flip? It is tapered on one end to fit tight on the barrel near where the barrel seats.

Is flipping it just a test or is it ok to fire it that way?

Thanks for the tip!
Last edited by steve98664 on March 25th, 2007, 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by zbysiu23 » March 25th, 2007, 10:53 pm

I am sorry
I should have not written this ..it was stupid of me..
You have obviously done it before..

It will only work one way

Sorry !!

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Post by b52stan » March 25th, 2007, 10:56 pm

Steve the tight end HAS TO GO ON FIRST! YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT THE 22# SPRING IS TOO HEAVY. Try the 20#, or leave well enough alone. The stock recoil spring works.

This new guy you just reponded to is not up to speed yet. JMHO.

Stan

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Post by barnett3006 » March 25th, 2007, 10:57 pm

steve98664,

I had the same problem when I tried to install my 22# spring. I ended up putting the muzzle end of the slide on the edge of a table and pushing down hard on the frame. The extra spring compression I get from doing this is minut. A 1/16 of an inch at the most, was all I needed to get the rails to pop back into place.

I would not start filing on the rails. If you notice that the ends of the spring are not finish ground, they have square ends. You might try finishing the ends of the spring with a file...I bet you would get the extra room you need to get the slide back on...possibley from only finishing one of the spring ends.

This is what I was going to do if I hadnt ben able to get the slide on by using a table edge.

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Post by steve98664 » March 25th, 2007, 11:14 pm

Thanks for the idea of the table edge! I had tried that first since my work bench is wooden. I did put a cloth down to make sure I didn't scratch the muzzle finish, no luck though.

The idea of finishing the spring ends might work! I noted that the spring ends are not finished/ground. They are a bit sloppy actually, since the pig tail end of the springs are not tightly compressed with the last 2 coils touching like other Wolf springs. Actually, as I looked at the 22# spring I got, I noted that the height of the last 2 coils is not right either and it made me think that the 2nd last coil circumference is large enough to where it could overlap the end/last coil. The ends of these springs are not like any others I've gotten from Wolff. I wonder if they rushed production on these to satisfy us all!

Thanks again for the suggestions!

I may stick with the 20# recoil spring. I think I will try with the 22# again just to see, but I did spend about an hour and countless attempts. I inspected the mating surfaces where the slide and frame engage to make sure there was nothing munged up too :) All of the surfaces there look clean. I think I may just have a tight tolerance P64 for that guiding/mating point.

The spring finishing sounds the most promising because if I mess it up, I can order another spring easy!

I would hate to get a spring in there and then not be able to get it out!

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Post by nicksterdemus » March 26th, 2007, 12:28 am

Steve, for the sake of satisfying curiosity you should send me the 22lb'r so it can be determined if it will fit on mine. Naturally 4 safeties sake ya better include the heavier firing pin as well. This is strickly research n has no bearing on me being a cheapskate...............

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Post by brigade » March 26th, 2007, 12:29 am

Steve the tight end HAS TO GO ON FIRST! YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT THE 22# SPRING IS TOO HEAVY. Try the 20#, or leave well enough alone. The stock recoil spring works.

This new guy you just reponded to is not up to speed yet. JMHO.

Stan
I agree... I put 20lb recoil springs and 20lb hammer springs. I put this in all my P-64's and everything is good. The 20lb hammer spring is not much different than the 17 and this way it is a good compromise between the stock heavy hammer spring and the light ones... I put a 17lb's in first but didn't like how light the single action was so the 20lbs seemed better overall and double action was smooth also. Plus 20lb recoil and 20lb hammer spring is easy numbers to remember.

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Post by saands » March 26th, 2007, 12:30 am

I was wondering if there is a difference in the springs that people are getting and then it occurred to me that there might be a difference in the internal dimensions of the pistols! I'd be willing to bet that the 22# springs have more metal on them than the 20# springs ... I KNOW that there is precious little room left over when the springs are fully collapsed and the slide is back all the way ... I'm wondering if there are some p64's that like the 22# spring and some that just don't/won't ... I'd love to get a look at a 22 that won't work ... just to see if it is the pistol or the spring.

Saands

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Post by steve98664 » March 27th, 2007, 2:30 am

Saands,

I think you are correct. I'm sure I had the spring fully compressed. I didn't compare the wire diameter of the 22# and the 20# recoil springs, but I did compare the 22# to the original spring. The wire diameter of the 22# is much larger, maybe 2x... I should pull out my caliper.

Anyhow, I'm not fixated on the 22# spring getting installed, but the idea of finishing the ends of the spring when I have a chance doesn't sound terrible to see if I can get that millimeter or 2 that'll let it go on. The tips of the springs were not lopped off evenly either and there may be a bit of room there also if I finish the end of the spring properly.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

At this point, I'm just curious if it can be fitted. I don't like getting something that can't be used....

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Post by nicksterdemus » March 27th, 2007, 5:08 am

If'n it were yours truly I'd take the pistol end o' da spring n gently persuade it on a grinding wheel ever so gently......................

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Post by zbysiu23 » March 27th, 2007, 11:06 am

HI

Idid use the grinding wheel on both the 20 and the 22 pounders it just the neat thing to do..
however bothof mine new springs fit with no issues and the diameter of my 22 is not that much bigger than the 20 or the original one...
I have put the 22lb it was just the more universal option for me..this way I can go to 20lb any time without messing with the fireing pin spring.(its a pain...)
My main springs slip in and out with no problems...
I just hope you got the right spring ????...
My p-64 is 1972

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Post by carguy » March 28th, 2007, 9:26 pm

I'm dizzy reading this thread. It started off on springs went to ballistics, got nasty, kissed and made up then ended up on springs again! I know they are related but I'm just trying to figure out what the best (each P64 is differrent and everyone's touch is different, I know) concensus is...20# recoil spring/18# trigger spring and if these are used is it necessary to replace the firing pin spring (or is that just for the 22# recoil spring)?????

I know opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one. But is there a good general combination to ease the DA trigger pull without effecting the SA pull and easing the felt recoil all while allowing the pistol to function properly)?

Thanks

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